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Re: ARIX Foundation

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Quote:

wawa wrote:
I dont think aros development is slow because of arix this time.


Actually the TLSF memory allocator in AROS is a back port form ARIX :) But that's only me and my tiny code... And you know that I'm hardly active anyway ;)

Posted on: 2013/11/20 11:39
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Re: iAROS just for Core i-CPUs

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To the money stuff again: It's a principle of me, open-source freeware must be free.


So, for you free software must be "free as a beer" which is is not necessarily the case. Read the statement of the Free Software Foundation:

Quote:

“free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer”.


Quote:

If there aren't created drivers for a special purpose, then it seems that the project is not interesting enough to get it working.


Lol, that's an interesting statement. I would say it other way round: if there aren't created drivers, then it seems that the developers who are able to write such, don't own the hardware. Do you think the few in AROS dev team who could write drivers at all, can write them blindly without even having a HW to test?

Quote:

I'm active in the net, writing guides and reviews, helping as far as I can and whatever. I can good explain and so on. But I never take money for that.


Great, you do things you know and are good at for free. Driver developers can the same, provided they have the required knowledge, documentation and hardware. If one or more of this things are missing, writing a driver is virtually impossible. Is it so hard to understand?

Quote:

To OSx86: Some early drivers were patched by Apple, but later more and more were completely new.


I see the contrary. Nowadays you need nearly nothing but OSX installation CD to get most of your PC working well with OSX.

Quote:

the special Natit graphics driver,


Do you see the lacking knowledge here? Natit is not a graphics driver. It's just an injector which requires original Apple NVIDIA drivers. Here a quote from Natit FAQ:

Quote:

Natit is a Open-Source clone of Omni's Titan started by dm_webd. Titan is a registry key setter kext for the new 10.4.8 NVIDIA kexts. For the Apple NVIDIA kexts to work, several values must be set correctly to get vanilla[unauthorized] cards to work with it. Titan/Natit sets those values, allowing the user full QE/CI/OpenGL, as well as resolution switching and refresh rate changing. Natit has been further developed beyond Titan to allow ATi GPUs, dual displays, and other features to work.


Quote:

The reprogrammed Darwin kernel


Yes, the hackintosh people used Apple's darwin kernel (thus re-using efforts of Apple developers) and extended it. Great, but it was not a work from scratch like in case of AROS.

Quote:

was containing an SSE3 emulator from the beginning, so it could be installed on older CPU's like the Pentium 4 or older Athlon 64.


Sure, but developers working on that were owning the hardware they wanted to get support. Why don't you write anything about Athlon users left by the great developers/hackers just because the developer changed the hardware?

Quote:

Well, and the Chameleon Bootloader allowed to emulate a complete EFI environment, so a PC is much closer to a normal Intel-Mac.


Yes, chameleon is great, but again, it's hot a hardware driver, it merely allows hardware drivers written by Apple to work.

Quote:

Buying hardware: In the most OS communities it isn't neccessary to buy hardware, because a lot hardware is available.


The smaller community, the less hardware is available. Simply as that.

Quote:

Well, here I asked about ATI driver and me was quickly told that they are not supported and I should by a nVidia card.


Yes, because noone owning ATI graphics cards is capable of writing hardware drivers. Simple.

Quote:

I don't have even a PC with AGP anymore,


and where does the implication NVIDIA -> AGP comes from? Our NVIDIA driver works well not only with ancient AGP cards. Did you know that? Ever asked?

Quote:

Porting: Porting to many platforms is not bad, but it leads to problems. If you compare, the most Linux PPC versions aren't continued anymore.


Huh? You surely mean linux distributions containing linux, GNU stuff and other goodies. Linux kernel development evolves very well on very different hardware platforms.

Quote:

If an OS is programmed, it must be worth the effort.


Huh? Are we talking about commercial product here, or rather about free source hobby OS written by developers in their free time for free and in most cases the only reward for developer is fun?

Quote:

It's not only the OS which should be programmed, there also must be applications for it. Applications for Intel 32bit are enough, and the chance for 64bit also wouldn't be bad. ARM is more difficult.


We are not using so much assembler these days. And C code can be compiled for x86, x86-64, PPC, ARM or anything else.

Posted on: 2013/7/24 23:39
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Re: iAROS just for Core i-CPUs

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Quote:

RC_tech wrote:
Sorry, I'm strictly against paying. If the programmers of every driver for Linux,


most of them either do that for
a) the hardware they own and want it to be supported, or
b) they are working and payed by the hardware vendor

The case (a) is exactly the same as in AROS. Developer has given HW and want it supported, then developers writes a driver, if he can of course. Regarding (b) - guess why so many drivers in linux tree contain not only the GPL notice, but also copyright note from Intel, NVidia, Freescale and others?

Quote:

OSx86,


Sure, there are drivers written by third party developers (and many thanks there!), but the majority of work done is fiddling with .plist files and trying to add the correct ProductID/VendorID and checking whether the driver provided by Apple is working or not. And guess what, the people who write the real drivers are doing that for the hardware they own, same as in case of AROS developers.

Quote:

the x86-portation of Android


which is relative simple, since linux kernel is full of already working hardware drivers

Quote:

or whatever had only started after they got enough money, we wouldn't have a lot less alternative operationg systems.


Development of every alternative operating system focuses on the hardware owned by the developers. If you know any alternative OS, where developers buy and write drivers for hardware requested by the community, for free of course, name it.

Quote:

I'm comparing again with the OSx86 scene.


You should not. They were re-using 99.99% of the drivers written and provided by Apple already. Do you think we have tons of drivers here, on AROS, which we need only to fix or adapt to make them working?

Quote:

Do you really think AROS is getting further that way?


A lot of bugs were found and fixed only because AROS is working in so many variants and on so many platforms. Some bugs were visible only on certain HW native, or hosted. Also performance of AROS internals was drastically improved in many places only because at some point we started to support some slower hardware. Thanks to the way AROS is written, porting it to completely new architecture, like 64-bit x86 or ARM many years ago was made by one person within few months. Is it really so bad?

Posted on: 2013/7/24 11:59
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Re: iAROS just for Core i-CPUs

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Quote:

what do you thing to reduce a new generation of AROS only to Intel Core i3, i5 and i7 CPUs of the last generations, Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge and Haswell? Reducing the programming of AROS to a few chipsets would have lot of adavatages:


I guess the low-level developers would need to buy such hardware then?

Quote:

- Core iX-systems would allow a 64bit-version as default with 32bit-support. Multicore support also could be possible later.


64bit version of AROS is available for years. The 32-bit support is not available in 64 bit version of AROS and it's not a matter of CPU used. Multicore will be worked on some day. As for now, all CPU cores are woken up from the initial suspend state and enter endless sleep loop again. Can be woken up anytime by sending an IPI interrupt though.

Quote:

- For programming, special command sets like SSSE3 could be used for more efficient code.


You can use SSE3 in AROS already. If you want to write a software which works without SSE3 too, provide either two binaries, or, even better, provide your software with two sets of functions (using SSE3 and using something else instead) and decide which to use in running software already.

Quote:

- there are a lot of Core iX Mini-ITX-Boards and laptops, so you have small or portable iAROS systems with a lot of power.


A lot of Mini-ITX boards and laptops means, there is a lot of different hardware configurations. And I just thought you were talking about reducing the hardware base?

I read you are using OSx86. So you're surely familiar with things like buyer's guides containing hints and advices which HW to use and how well is given hardware supported by OSX. Guess what, we have the same. Look at this page: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Aros/Platforms/x86_support

Why do you accept the fact, that you are forced to buy new hardware to be able to install OSX there, and at the same time you refuse AROS to offer you the same?

Yes, AROS is open source project and all developers are working on it in their free time, just for fun. Therefore, it's rather unpleasant to hear, what shall we do with our free time. You don't like the situation, then try to influence on AROS development in some other way. Telling us what we should and what we should not is surely not the right way, though.

Posted on: 2013/7/24 8:19
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Re: iAROS just for Core i-CPUs

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Quote:

RC_tech wrote:
I heard sometimes that's a problem that AROS is open-source, but that's not the problem. The problem is, that there's no directed development, like erbsenbirne said. Actually we also have three distributions, all Intel 32-bit. Linux has more than 100 distros, but they lowered down, a lot are using Ubuntu today.


So you say if AROS had only one distro, we would get better hardware support? Do you think that people who put AROS distros together, are good low-level developers capable of writing hardware drivers?

Or do I miss something?


Posted on: 2013/7/24 8:04
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Re: Thread.library gets stuck

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2004/3/30 23:19
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Quote:

serk118uk wrote:

Hello ppl

I am currently Testing (Thread.Library) with small example trying to run aVorbisPlayer as thread using thread library but plays the 1st filled buffer than wont receive any more and gets stuck at above code but if i run the code without thread than all fine and plays entire ogg..

Please download and take a look and see if i am doing wrong or aros related problem.


Quick reply without compiling the code. You've made one huge mistake. You call ahi_allocate_resources from the main thread. Hence, the MsgPort which you create there is assigned to the main thread too (mp_SigTask). Even worse, the CreateMsgPort function allocates a signal (mp_SigBit) for the main thread too. Therefore, if you call Wait(SIGBREAKF_CTRL_C | (1L << ahi_msg_port->mp_SigBit)) in your player thread, it will wait for SIGBREAKF_CTRL_C only.

Solution: create MsgPort and IORequests in the player thread. Actually you could call the whole ahi_allocate_resources from the player thread :)


PS. It is a very VERY VERY bad habit to put the code into .h file (output_ahi.h). Fix it please!

Posted on: 2013/7/9 2:44
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Re: How useable is AROS on a slow system like 68K, PPC, ARM or old x86?

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Quote:

biggun wrote:

I think a developer or designer can easily or accidentally create a theme or some code which runs very swift on the high end system but totally overloads a low end system - without noticing this.


I have had that already. When I was porting AROS to EfikaPPC I have found few places which slowed the whole system significantly. But apart from that EfikaPPC with AROS and Radeon driver (not VESA) was quite snappy and fast.

Soon I should be able to tell something about the performance of EfikaMX running native AROS.

Quote:

Personally I'm very curious to know if AROS could be the ideal Operating system for a "semi legacy system" that has 1 GB of memory and a performance comparable to the EFIKA PPC.

This is of course a slow system compared to todays x86 - but out of nostalgic reasons I would like to use the system very much.


EfikaPPC was fast with AROS, as already said. One could have notice the slowdown though when raw cpu power or fast HD IO performance were needed. The hello world in C++ took nearly a minute to compile, mostly due to a huge IO load. You know, c++ and std namespace...

PS. With 1.6GHz Atom system and my video driver for Intel GMA I was able to watch 720p movies. However, it was a bit too slow for 1080p (most likely due to lack of overlay)

Posted on: 2013/6/4 0:38
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Re: ppc efika

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Quote:

mt12345 wrote:
so I copied the missing handlers from nightly x86.
no errors this time but still hangs at


Erm... Do I understand right, you have copied x86 binaries to ppc AROS and expected it to work?

PS. The nightly build for EfikaPPC you guys are testing was an automated build on Markus Weiss machine. I'm not sure he was even able to test it...

Posted on: 2013/5/29 5:38
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Re: ppc OS X hosted

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Quote:

ausPPC wrote:
The one I've got is only about a week old but I take your point.

Who put the OS X release out?


These are not releases, but rather nightly builds -- automated builds done from the current revision of source tree. They are not checked by any humans after compilation is done, but rather uploaded automatically to the sourceforge.

Quote:

Or are these things just the product of a sophisticated build environment that isn't supposed to need individual support for specific platforms?


As I wrote the nightly builds are not controlled by anyone. Even worse - supporting e.g. OSX PPC hosted is relatively hard, since we do not have the Rosetta PPC emulator since OSX 10.7... I personally do not own any PPC mac anymore and cannot test the builds.

Posted on: 2013/5/29 0:29
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Re: Amiga 1200 + ACA 1232 aros m68k

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Quote:

twilen wrote:
Arosbootstrap probably got broken due to recent memory subsystem changes.



Can't be, unless you give MEMF_MANAGED flag to the krnCreateMemHeader function... But I'm sure you don't.

Posted on: 2013/5/22 10:00
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