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Re: [Odyssey Web Browser wishlist ]: WebGL & dependencies necessary for use of Babylon.js & three.js

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Considering my hardware specs are pretty stout, it is probably not very far fetched to host Linux in a hosted environment and host AROS on top of it. However, not ideal performance but doable on sufficient hardware.


Posted on: 7/10 12:06
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Re: [Odyssey Web Browser wishlist ]: WebGL & dependencies necessary for use of Babylon.js & three.js

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Quote:

terminills wrote:

Deadwood had webgl working on Odyssey. IIRC he decided to not release it because at the time it actually was working better hosted(hostgl) than natively.


WebGL v1. specifications had been out for awhile and I think you'd be right in that being around during the later builds. WebGL v2 specifications for in work and experimental versions were in WebKit for some time but ultimately WebGL v2 specifications have been finalized a year or so ago.

As for WebGL v1. specification working will depend on the implementation of OpenGL implementation underneath and the facilities implemented to make optimal use of available hardware features like multicore cpus, CUDA cores, etc. that is currently present in hardware. The better we handle that, the better we handle GL stuff be it WebGL or not. Even if in a hosted environment, to be able to do this adequately in the browser environment of the hosted AROS implementation is still fine. I understand that some hardware builds that people have done for native AROS are very dated hardware. Some people trying to run AROS in systems with a Pentium III cpu. Like it said, in the user manual for Icaros Desktop, that if your 400 Mhz didn't play DivX movies full screen at full frame rate under Windows, it will absolutely not do that with AROS. I'd say, if an application couldn't be executed reasonably under 500 MHz on Windows or Linux or any other operating systems, it isn't going to work even with AROS because what is needed can not be achieved with the clock cycles, the bus bandwidth, etc. I would say that WebGL can be difficult on systems with that low of hardware specs because there is overhead to translate javascript to machine language and the "GL" API to the video card's native GPU processing and so forth.

What we do know for IcarosDesktop v2.2.2 is that 3D Acceleration is not available to Hosted under Windows. Of course you can bypass that limitation by Hosting AROS on top of Linux which is in itself being hosted on Windows provided you make available to the hosted Linux all facilities for hardware features like 3d hardware accelerated graphics.



Posted on: 7/10 12:02
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Re: [Odyssey Web Browser wishlist ]: WebGL & dependencies necessary for use of Babylon.js & three.js

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Quote:

sabbate wrote:
guys is the least I can do, aros must live


I agree.

Posted on: 7/7 10:25
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Re: [Odyssey Web Browser wishlist ]: WebGL & dependencies necessary for use of Babylon.js & three.js

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Quote:

nikolaos wrote:
I'm much in the same boat as Sabbate. I can beta test and donate money.


I'm not against the idea of donation but I don't want collect donation for any of my projects until I have done some 'tangible' level of work on my part and a momentum going on my part beyond just reading some source code.

As I am studying the challenges faced, I wouldn't want take money before hand. I want to be sure people are getting something tangible, so to speak, and that donations are like rewards for accomplishments made and an encouragement to reach the next mile stone.

As for beta testing, that will be great when we get to that stage.


Posted on: 7/7 10:24
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Re: [Odyssey Web Browser wishlist ]: WebGL & dependencies necessary for use of Babylon.js & three.js

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Quote:

sabbate wrote:
hello

I had to uninstall aros for owb, no longer updated for a few years and I was sorry, I understand the situation hate of what goes around it for its development etc .. etc ..., your work would be very welcome and I would say that I would have no words to add about, what I can do as a simple user and make some donation for your work, if you want to send in private your paypal address, I will provide according to my possibilities.
I was born with amiga and aros for me to use it on my computer is like an oasis in the desert, I spent years developing and using it as a main system and I think I'm not alone.

have a good day


We can touch basis on donation/paypal stuff at a future date. I am currently not ready to collect donations for this at the moment. As for wawa and others, they'll speak for themselves. I'm just speaking for myself. At least to me, your positive support is encouraging.

Posted on: 7/7 3:45
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Re: [Odyssey Web Browser wishlist ]: WebGL & dependencies necessary for use of Babylon.js & three.js

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Quote:

wawa wrote:
Quote:

RickAstoria wrote:

Sound good. I might want to run Linux in the VMPlayer from a thumb drive or some Flash media for development but I probably could fit it in my remaining 1.4+ TB of free space of the main hard drive. It doesn't hurt me to use any distribution of Linux but for developmental purpose, at least one setup in Lubuntu would make sense so we are working on the same page with less headache that would result from running different distribution packages.



usb thumb might slow things down. better use an drive image on a fast interface, that remains fast with little non sequential file writes and eads like when copiling complex source. also dedicate enough space for the image. from my experience 100gb can be tight, but im compiling many targets in parallel. but consider it, before you need to use gparted to expand the image.

the version of lubuntu i use is dated and slowly annoyes me, when i need to get yet another package. also it has limited functionalities like no source higlighting in basic editor. but ubuntu and plain debian annoyed me more to start with, so best do make your own choice.

important is to get something fairly mainstream due to packages chhoice.


I think I have enough room on my hard drive for it. I still technically have an unused terabyte of my hard drive volume as well as an additional hard drive that I can install on to one of the SATA connectors on the mobo.

I have room to do a larger build if I need to later but I have some 1200+ GBytes still free on the HD that is active but the main OS has some room. Not too big of a problem at this time.


Posted on: 7/7 3:39
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Re: [Odyssey Web Browser wishlist ]: WebGL & dependencies necessary for use of Babylon.js & three.js

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Quote:

wawa wrote:

use vmware player.

install your preferred linux (i use lubuntu but maybe ubuntu inself or debian as such improved since).

install vmware tools to your guest to drag and drop data and share clipboard between windows host and linux vm, (important for convenience).

within linux, here are instructions how to build it:
http://aros.sourceforge.net/documentation/developers/compiling.php

and my additional info in post #3:

http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/vi ... hp?topic_id=10828&forum=2

its basically seting up necessary packages (note youll need proper version of flex 2.5.35 for few things like owb and grub2 but it depends if you want to build these at all) simple configuration command and make (eventually make bootiso).

you can test aros on:
1. hosted (linux and mingw under windows),
2. within vm(ware) (player), (youll need to install it from bootiso)
3. within qemu emulation, (youll need to install it from bootiso)
4. on a dedicated machine, (youll need to install it from bootiso)

hope that helps.


Sound good. I might want to run Linux in the VMPlayer from a thumb drive or some Flash media for development but I probably could fit it in my remaining 1.4+ TB of free space of the main hard drive. It doesn't hurt me to use any distribution of Linux but for developmental purpose, at least one setup in Lubuntu would make sense so we are working on the same page with less headache that would result from running different distribution packages.


Posted on: 7/7 2:44
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Re: [Odyssey Web Browser wishlist ]: WebGL & dependencies necessary for use of Babylon.js & three.js

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXlO_lAxLbw

Just some thoughts. I wouldn't want or expect WebGL to be something for everyone on the lower end of the hardware specs for AOS4, MorphOS, or AROS. It would be something that in my opinion should be user selectable as to whether it is enabled or disabled for a mainstream browser.

Using a customized OWB as a client for an online game, app or something else online, can be set by the game, app, or whatever developer as appropriate.

Personally, I'd be very interested in concurrent work in improving hardware accelerated graphics in native and hosted or virtualized environment when suitable graphic cards are present.

Doom 3 is a good inspiration. It can run on AROS. There is nothing I see that should prohibit such a game or equivalent from happening from inside a web browser with WebGL.

Here is another inspiration on what can be done with just WebGL (not the v2.0 but original v1.0 specs because 2.0 wasn't finalized until two 2016/2017.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=BV32Cs_CMqo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9KRBuVBjVo

Now, as far as asm.js support. I'm not exactly sure where that is in the OWB but still. The computer specs used by the person in the second link would be comparable to a system we would be using for AROS in the next 5 years. It was a high end system back in 2013.




Posted on: 7/7 2:36
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Re: [Odyssey Web Browser wishlist ]: WebGL & dependencies necessary for use of Babylon.js & three.js

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Quote:

A-Siegel wrote:
Quote:

RickAstoria wrote:

(WE = whoever gets that part working first and this part is important enough to be a collective effort to get that part working for us and benefits us not just AROS/IcarosDesktop but also those on non-x86 systems like PPC Amiga platforms, MorphOS, etc.)

AROS, MorphOS and AOS all use somewhat different APIs for 3D graphics.

Anyway, leopard-webkit, which is based on a fairly recent Webkit version, does provide WebGL on old MacOS releases for PowerPC hardware. I tested this a while ago and it does work for simple WebGL demos at least.

That said, in terms of overall performance, this is more interesting for AROS. In theory at least. In practice, a lot of the existing users run AROS hosted or virtualized and lack proper access to 3D hardware acceleration so WebGL would be of little use to them.

Still, any improvements you can do add to Odyssey would be welcome I am sure.


I understand. While my project that would be using WebGL technology would benefit most on moderately strong hardware comparable to an i5 quad-core in performance power, there maybe ways to be able to get things working on lower spec systems but RAM and mass storage space are your biggest things that may bottle neck performance but WebGL via ANGLE at the timeframe of the r18xxx release (2015) would require at least video cards capable of Direct X 9.0c. (Geforce 6 series - Geforce 6xxx & ATI/AMD Radeon equivalent). However, the polygons and rendering level can put significant strain on say a sub-GHz computer. Of course, if they are using Windows or some other OS on major hardware specs, they can always use the Firefox based "browser-client" for my project I referenced to in the original post.

However, for AROS and other systems equivalent to an x86 made in the last 10 years with a competent video card running AROS native or one of the other OSs with equivalent hardware performance of a i3/i5 x86/x86-64 processor, or even high end model Android tablets made 5 years ago would conceivably work fine. To better improve AROS/AOS/MorphOS/etc. would be better facilities for accelerated hardware graphics. This would be really awesome.

My goal at the least would be for OWB (or a fork of it) to process even WebGL (at least v1.x specifications standard but 2.x specifications would be even cooler for OpenGL ES 3.0 facilities). Getting this across AOS, MorphOS, and AROS would be great.




Posted on: 7/7 0:58
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Re: [Odyssey Web Browser wishlist ]: WebGL & dependencies necessary for use of Babylon.js & three.js

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Quote:

nikolaos wrote:
Would be very cool if you get this working.


It will be cool if WE get it working!

(WE = whoever gets that part working first and this part is important enough to be a collective effort to get that part working for us and benefits us not just AROS/IcarosDesktop but also those on non-x86 systems like PPC Amiga platforms, MorphOS, etc.)




Posted on: 7/6 23:23
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