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Re: Quadcore for 35 Euro!

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You just reminded me... I also have an old laptop.

I found a 14 year old 17" HP Pavilion 7000 series laptop in the trash, in very good condition, even the display. Although absolutely not supported by HP, I managed to get Windows 7 Ultimate 32 bit fully working, even with Aero transparency. It also works with Leopard 10.5.8. The system has OpeGL, Core Image and Quartz Extreme, which is neccessary for OS X. However, the graphics chip is just recognized as PCI, not AGP, so it's very slow. AGPGart works not correctly.

It was weird: I found no information about this thing, had to check the hadware components via vendor and device ID's. The laptop has a Pentium 4 with 3 GHz and Hyperthreading, so it's not too bad. I's also socketed, and I want to upgrade to a 3.2 GHz Pentium 4. I've upgraded the laptop to 2 GB RAM, a 320 GB IDE hard drive, and instead of the DVD drive I added an 1 TB 12,5 mm SATA HD The graphics chip is a Geforce mobility 5200 GO, is it compatible to AROS? My preferred Linux, ZorinOS 9, just results in a black screen, also Android-x86.

Sabbate, is it useful to upgrade a Pentium 4 laptop with a SSD? You won't get more speed out of it as the data bus allows.

Posted on: 11/24 9:03
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Re: Quadcore for 35 Euro!

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Hm, I saw yesterday a YouTube link of this, but i didn't watch.

The use of this thing is also not very sure. The board with 4 Gig RAM and an Intel ATOM Quadcore 500 MHz is $149, but with all addons you come to about $250. For this money you can get various Atom-powered netbooks. Smaller laptops will also do, the Lenovo x61 with 2 GHz Core 2 Duo is also about 240 Euro. AROS works on it, I have a Thinkpad X61 Tablet.

There are various devices to use. If you want something special, you can get a develeoper board, if you want something reliable, get a desktop PC or a laptop with standard hardwre components.

Posted on: 11/24 0:36
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Re: The electric light did not come from the continuous improvement of candles!

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The time for something new is over. The 8-bit-Guy showed this rather good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wDtxYeJdzg

The best thing is to keep the original hardware working and to re-use abandoned software. MorphOS uses PowerPC-Macs now. The ARM-port of AROS could be the base of a replacement for old iPads or Android devices. The processor and graphics power of these things is much more than AROS needs.

Something we should keep in mind: The C64 and Amiga people are probably the most widely used retro community. There's new hardware and software for both systems, the C64 got with the C64 reloaded a completely new motherboard. Even the weird C65 gets with the MEGA65 project a new chance. Of course I'm not familiar with it, but is it the same with other systems, like Atari 800, ST, Sinclair Spectrum, Amstrad CPC etc.? The time of old PC's and old Macs are over, but the Commodore computers live on. 2017 the C64 will get 35 years old.

But for demos, the Amiga is rather uninteresting for me because it has too much CPU speed and too good graphics capabilities. I love Demos on the C64, it's amazing what this machine can do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzQVECn3tY8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLIUkBa_mA0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo7uXaV6Q1s

This demo uses the sound routine from L-Man: It allows two SID channels and one the third three samples will be mixed in realtime. The second video shows this a bit better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzQVECn3tY8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI5d6Y0Fzl4

Here's something you all know:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0e1Mv52A5U

Posted on: 11/23 13:30
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Re: Quadcore for 35 Euro!

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1. Yep, the C64 and the C128 is also a Personal Computer, it is written on the sticker. The Raspberry (and much others) don't have a sticker like this, so they aren't personal computers. Bad Joke. We all know that a Raspberry is an experimental machine and not compareable to any directly working computer, not even to the ZX Spectrum (aka Timex 1000).

2. Can you run ALL Windows and Linux programs available for x86 processors at the same Speed/Ghz ratio? OSx86 isn't illegal depending on the the country. In Europe it's legal if you have an OS X 10.6.3 retail DVD. By the way, is Linux legal? At least it's a rip-off of the propriarety AT&T UNIX. OSx86 doesn't need to reverse-engeneering code, it's all done with the bootloader Clover or Chameleon.

3. On x86 AROS runs native.

4. No, the comparison is not fair because this thread was ment for the *upgrade* of an existing system. I already said this.

5a. THESE are news. Do you also knew that the speed of the whole system is depending on the RAM speed?

5b. See for yourself:

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/206/ ... _vs_Intel_Xeon_E5472.html

The CPU core/TDP ratio is also better: The C2D E8400 has 32.5, the Xeon E5472 has 20.

5c. The Xeon has the same command set like the Core 2 Duo, including the C1E power saving bit. I'm using my Xeon with a 150W graphics card and two harddrives with a 400W PSU, no problems.

5d. Wrong. The C2D E8400 and the Xeon E5450 are staying both around 50° in BIOS with the same fan/case configuration. While checking temperatures in the system it may reach in heavy load about 62°, without load it's beyond 50°.

PC processors have since a looooong time temperature diodes and will switch themselves off. Older processors like the Socket A AMD Duron or Athlon didn't have one, if you overclock it and remove the cooler, it will explode. No melting.

Experience: I have my C64 since 1989, my A500 since 1991, my A4000T since 1998 and I've building PCs since 2004, and I'm in the OSx86 scene since 2006. I got the idea with the Xeon this year or perhaps last year by accident, because somebody sold on ebay a computer with Asus board with a Xeon E5450. So I bought one. I was very surprised that it had Socket 771. But because I'm always informing about what I do, it didn't take long to do the rework multiple times - successfully. If you're telling me that you have experiences with Xeons and all of your information were wrong, that's... well, no comment. And it seems that you have not read the first post completely: The Core 2 Quad Q6600 which is in a similar price range, is much worse.

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/317/ ... _vs_Intel_Xeon_E5472.html

The much cheaper Xeon E5450 and the E5472 outmatches even the Q2Q Q9650 because it has a lower power consumption:

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/325/ ... _vs_Intel_Xeon_E5472.html



I hope this will do. I don't like to fight in forums, but if somebody brings an endless list of information which sounds all negative, then I correct this. The Raspberry and the Arduino may have their uses, but it is not a replacement for a daily-use desktop computer which can run all widely used software.

Posted on: 11/22 8:15

Edited by RC_tech on 2016/11/25 8:11:07
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Re: Quadcore for 35 Euro!

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Is a Raspberry capable of running Windows, Linux, OSx86? Is there enough software for ARM-AROS? Sorry, comparing a Raspberry to a PC was not really a good idea. Including case, storage media and whatever you need for a full Raspberry system will also be more. This hint with the Xeon rework was intended to be a cheap method to *upgrade* an existing system. So there are really no hidden costs, just for the processor and the sticker (and thermal grease, if you don't have it).

For some who want a small solution, get a Zotac GeForce 9300 Mini-ITX board. It is one of the few Mini-ITX Socket 775 boards which is featuring a full PCI-E x16 slot. The board has the MCP7A chipset and GeForce 9300 integrated graphics which is compatible to AROS, according to the compatibility list. The board has some flaws, but is fully compatible to OSx86, supports the Xeon and allows up to 8 GB RAM. It features two SATA onboard and one eSATA port, but there are also versions which have three SATA onboard and still eSATA.

Because the Zotac board already has an AROS-compatible graphics card onboard, it would be possible to use a stylish Aluminium Mac-Mini-Shaped case, with two 2,5" harddrives and a picoPSU power suply. However, if you count all those special components together, it will get rather expensive, especcially the cases. A nice case for about 45 Euro is the Coolermaster Elite 110. It is a cube with about 23 cm length and has a mesh gate at the front, so it looks like a small subwoofer. Although it's rather small, it allows a standard ATX power supply, three 3,5" harddrives or four 2,5" harddrives (also mixed) and also a double-width graphics card with 20 cm length. Using a Scythe Big Shuriken with a Noiseblocker 120 mm fan it fits exactly beneath the power supply, so the air from the procesor will be directly sucked out of the case. Space for a DVD drive is missing. It's probably not so small as some Mac-Mini-sized Mini-ITX cases, but you don't have to use special hardware with less power because there's no space, f.e. a picoPSU power supply.

A weird mini-ITX-board is the Gigabyte H61-D2V. It has Socket 1155 for a Core i7, supports 16 GB RAM, 4x SATA2 and lots of USB. It also features the graphical Dual UEFI Bios. But it has just one video ouput, the ATX shield contains directly a parallel and a serial port. And the board has just one PCI slot, not PCI-Express. Sounds stupid, but it has an advantage for retro users: Because it supports a parallel port, it's possible to use XE1541 cables or something like this. The cheap Willem Eprommer also needs a parallel port. The PCI slot can be used for an AROS-compatible graphics card. But you have to use a Core i7 because other cpus just have the crappy Intel HD2500.

Posted on: 11/22 4:00
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Re: Quadcore for 35 Euro!

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Simple: It's very cheap way to upgrade a working system. A new computer certanily doesn't cost 35 Euro. Continung the use of older hardware is also better than throwing it away.

@ sabbate:

I got my Xeons all used on ebay. The useable models are Xeon E5450 and E5472 Socket 771. The stickers are looking like this:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Lot-of-10-x-Ad ... fc94df:g:71EAAOSwHmhV7hsm

It's better to buy more than an auction with just one sticker, if something goes wrong there's a replacement. As thermal grease I'm using Artic MX-2. This stuff should be used on the complete surface of the processor, I'm using an old credit card to get a thin, smooth layer of grease on top of the CPU. The Intel 'Push Pin' mounting method is horrible, no comparison two AMD sockets. One thing is very important: Don't let the mainboard lay on the table, hold it in your hand, and push two diagonal pins at the same time.

Complete systems: Do not buy a Dell or HP system because they have OEM boards. Best are systems with standard boards like the Asus P5Q series or the Gigabyte GA-EP45 series. I've checked in someother ebays and was suprised not to find very good stuff, so European users can look in German ebay, there is a lot Socket 775 stuff to find. Shipping inside Europe is also not too expensive, perhaps 30 Euro for a full computer.



P.S.: If you hate somebody, buy some Artic Silver 5 thermal grease and empty it in a jackets inner pocket. This stuff is so sticky, you'll never get it out there >:-E

Posted on: 11/22 1:04
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Re: Schwartz: Anniversary AMiGA 30+1

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They should clarify that it is an Intel-iMac in the next video of this style. All PPC-Macs are MorphOS-compatible, not the PowerMac who's the drummer.

Too bad Sabrina Online ended this year

Posted on: 11/21 8:50
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Re: Quadcore for 35 Euro!

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It's the best to buy a bundle or a complete system, not just a mainboard. Important is only that it contains as much RAM as possible, because DDR2 RAM is very expensive. Interesting is also that nearly all Socket 775 boards are OSx86 compatible, so just select a compatible graphics card and you have a 2008 MacPro3,1. If the board has two PCI-Express x16 slots you can fit in an additional graphics card for AROS. There's a good method to switch monitors: There are three- or five input HDMI switches with remote control for about 7 Euro available. The IR sensor is on a long cable and can be connected with a 2,5 or 3,5 mm jack. So, buy some DVI-> adapters and a Y-Cable for the IR controller. If you use the remote, both outputs will be switched at the same time.

Useful components: A Radeon Sapphire HD6870 1 GB costs about 35 Euro and is even compatible down to Snow Leopard 10.6.8, which is the fastest OS X version ever and the last one which supports PowerPC software. The Sapphire is extremely quiet, you don't hear it at all. For cooling, Noiseblocker Black Silent Pro PL-1 120 mm are very recommendable. They have just 12 dB and an airflow of 68 cm/3. They are also good as CPU fans and if you have a power supply with a louder fan, just replace it with a Noiseblocker fan. My last systems are absolutely silent.

Posted on: 11/21 5:05
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Re: Quadcore for 35 Euro!

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Of course the Xeons are having energy saving functions, so the processor can run with a multiplicator of 6x (2 GHz) as standard and switch to 9x (3 GHz) if neccessary. In my Mini-ITX-System the CPU stays around 50°, and the cooler is not too big.

The Xeon seerver processors are also using a better silicon substrate than consumer processors because they must be more durable. That may explain the much higher costs in comparison to a consumer processor.

Posted on: 11/21 0:13
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Quadcore for 35 Euro!

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Hello,

I presume a lot of you are using a Socket 775 board for Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quad processors, or have some laying around after an upgrade. Well, the boards are not bad, but if you want to have a power-efficient CPU you have to stick with a Core 2 Duo because the Quad is too power-hungry.

Comparison: A very common CPU is the Core 2 Duo E8400 with 3.00 GHz, 6 MB L2-Cache and a TDP of 65W. The Core 2 Quad is in a similar price range, but has only 2.66 GHz, 4 MB L2-cache, the SSE4.1 instruction set is missing and the TDP is 109 or 135W.

But there is an alternative: The Xeon E5450 and E572. It has 4 cores with 3.00 and 12 MB L2-Caches. In fact it is a double Core 2 Duo E8400, however, it has a TDP of only 80W, just 15W more than the E8400. The Xeon E5450 has a FSB of 1333 MHz and the Xeon E5472 a FSB of 1600 MHz, this one was used in the Mac Pro. In the Mac Pro was also a 3.2 Ghz Xeon X5482 available, but it is much more expensive and has a TDP of 150W, so it's useless.

Well, so far, so good. But the Xeon has Socket 771, not 775. But that's no problem. On ebay you'll find small stickers wich are placed at a special position of the backside of the Xeon which are connecting two pins. The processor and the sticker will cost about 35 Euro. Then you have to modify the socket: Mark the position 1 of the socket very visible. Then cut out the direction notches of the socket completely, best use a scalpel. Now you can use processors for Socket 775 and modified CPUs for Socket 771 in there, but you can insert them in any direction.

I tested this method on different boards and it works great. The Windows 7 index of the Xeon E5450 is 7,3. With a simple Radeon HD2600XT it's possible to stream three Full-HD movies from a NAS in OSx86, and not all CPU time is used. Speaking of OSx86: using a MacPro3,1 profile you'll not even get this annoying 'Unknown processor: 0x3a' message.

http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/big/c4q7-jh-6e2f.png
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/big/c4q7-ji-a4f4.png

To really check out that it are Full-HD widescreen movies, click on the browser or download the image. OSx86 Leopard has in combination with the Radeon HD2600XT the ability to 'overclock' TFT monitors. My HP L2035 has a native resolution of 1600x1200, but a display of 2048x1536 is possible with the HD2600XT. On my LG TV with 1920x1080 are even 2560x1440 or 2560x1600 possible! And the image looks good, a bit 'crisp' because some pixels are missing, but much better than a blurry lower resolution which doesn't fit to the monitors native resolution. Resolutions with different aspect ratio (4:3 / 16:9) will not be stretched, there's a black border. You can see a display resolution list of my LG TM2732 (3D TV/Monitor with cable and SAT receiver) in the first picture. Unfortunately, the HD2600XT was already not even in Snow Leopard supported anymore.


Back to topic: If you have a Socket 775 board, it's worth a try to do the Xeon experiment. I's not too expensive and if you don't mess up the socket modification, you can always put in your old CPU. With a Quadcore processor Socket 775 boards don't have to hide. But you don't need to stop at PC's: The late 2009 iMacs also have Socket 775 with a Core 2 Duo E8400 or E8600, it would be interesting if it works, too. The main problem would probably be the higher TDP.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple ... inum-late-2009-specs.html


Greets, RC.

Posted on: 11/20 9:05

Edited by RC_tech on 2016/11/20 9:26:01
Edited by RC_tech on 2016/11/20 9:27:27
Edited by RC_tech on 2016/11/20 9:30:03
Edited by RC_tech on 2016/11/20 9:31:03
Edited by RC_tech on 2016/11/20 9:34:19
Edited by RC_tech on 2016/11/20 9:35:59
Edited by RC_tech on 2016/11/20 9:38:42
Edited by RC_tech on 2016/11/20 9:39:52
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