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Re: Components for multiboot system

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Do you mean this thread?

http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/vi ... php?topic_id=8762&forum=4

I already posted there, but Kalamantee said I should start a new thread. So I did.

So, if there are compatibility issues (and there may be enough), why is the forum not creating a wiki like in the OSx86 scene? The are listing compatible baords, bards, laptops etc. since version 10.4.1, with error descriptions etc.

http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/HCL_10.4.1

10.4.1 is the first OSx86 version available, 11 years ago. Now version 10.12.4 is coming, this are 63 subversions since then. And for every version exists a wiki like this.

Wouldn't it be possible to do something similar? Not just comments like *may be working* *possibly* *depends on manufacturer* etc.? A real wiki with manufacturers, device ID's and a full error description. Especcially for laptops or netbooks this would be useful.

Posted on: 3/9 0:26

Edited by RC_tech on 2017/3/9 0:50:56
Edited by RC_tech on 2017/3/9 0:53:45
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Re: Components for multiboot system

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It's weird, I have a place where to find the coolest items. Actually there's another server board there, including RAM and two CPUs. Specs are not bad:

http://www.tyan.com/Motherboards_S5375_S5375AG2NR

The weirdest thing I found there was another Tyan or Supermicro board, for two Pentium II Slot 1 and nine (!) PCI slots. But I didn't buy it, the format of this board was so unusual, it would have fit in no case.

A Dual-CPU board is an interesting project. First, they look cool because the boards are so huge. The quadcore processors of the Xeon E54xx oder L54xx series are cheap, starting at 10 Euro. Server boards also take a lot of memory, and I got 64 GB of DDR2/667 Fully Buffered RAM for just 70 Euro. A great case for a project like this is the Coolermaster Cosmos 1000, now I'm trying an Aerocool Aero 800 with a black glass window. Although it's stated as ATX case, the Supermicro board fits in it, and they're using their own size Enhanced E-ATX which is larger than Extended ATX. The whole case is filled with the board, and even the 15,5 cm high Fujitsu CPU coolers fit in. But an usual 5,25" DVD drive won't fit in the length, probably a slimline DVD drive will work.

Posted on: 3/8 15:14
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Re: Components for multiboot system

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Yes. PCI-X is just a 64bit Extension for PCI. The important thing are the bars in the port. The bar at front identifies that the PCI slot is 3.3V, like on my board. The Soundblaster has noteches at the front and at the back, so it's compatible to 3.3V and 5V PCI slots. More about PCI-X here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-X

PCI-X cards *can* be backward-compatible. I have two PCI-X cards in my other server system, a LaCie Firewire 800 card made for the PowerMac and an LSI Dual-Wide-SCSI-controller. They are working in a standard (32bit) PCI slot on every board, but don't have the 64 bit abilities then.

It's the same like with PCI-Express. You can use a x1 card in an x16 slot, but you also can use a PCI-E x16 card in an x8 slot, but don't have all lanes for maximum speed. My board has four PCI-E x8 slots, one only with x4 speed. I have to cut a hole at the end of the x8 slots for the graphic card. According to some tests, even at gaming it the speed difference between x16 and x8 ist just between 2 to 10% lower, so it's not very important.

Posted on: 3/8 14:41

Edited by RC_tech on 2017/3/8 15:08:26
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Components for multiboot system

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Hello,

I'm actually building another Dual-CPU system based on a Supermicro X7DWN+ server board:

http://www.supermicro.com/products/mo ... /Xeon1333/5400/X7DWN_.cfm

Some modifications will be neccessary because the board has only PCI-E x8 ports, it also has no audio. But that's not so bad at all. Of course it should be a multiboot system:

- Windows
- OSx86
- AROS
- MS-DOS 6.22 (not FreeDOS)

I've checked the components, the Soundblaster Live! 5.1 should be compatible to all operating systems, including MS-DOS. It also features a game port, which is missing on all boards today.

The problem is as usual the graphics card. In the wiki about supported graphic cards is this statement:

"The best graphics card a person can buy for AROS is a 9800gtx, followed by other 9800 variations, followed by 9600GT, followed by 8800GTS."

So the best graphics card should be the GeForce 9800GTX+. It seems that it is OSx86-compatible, too.

I can get a Soundblaster Live! and a XFX GeForce 9800GTX+ Black Edition. Are these components compatible to AROS, including 3D graphics support?

Greets

Posted on: 3/8 12:46
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Re: Nvidia's 9800GT vs the 9800GTX.

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I can get an XFX Geforce 9800 GTX+ and a Soundblaster Live! 5.1 for a few bucks. The soundblaster should work, what about the graphics card? I finally want to get a system which is really 100% AROS compatible.

Posted on: 3/8 4:24
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Re: Nvidia's 9800GT vs the 9800GTX.

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What manufacturer is your 9800GTX+ or doesn't it matter? Are there better graphic cards for AROS available?

Posted on: 3/7 0:27
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Re: Quadcore for 35 Euro!

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You just reminded me... I also have an old laptop.

I found a 14 year old 17" HP Pavilion 7000 series laptop in the trash, in very good condition, even the display. Although absolutely not supported by HP, I managed to get Windows 7 Ultimate 32 bit fully working, even with Aero transparency. It also works with Leopard 10.5.8. The system has OpeGL, Core Image and Quartz Extreme, which is neccessary for OS X. However, the graphics chip is just recognized as PCI, not AGP, so it's very slow. AGPGart works not correctly.

It was weird: I found no information about this thing, had to check the hadware components via vendor and device ID's. The laptop has a Pentium 4 with 3 GHz and Hyperthreading, so it's not too bad. I's also socketed, and I want to upgrade to a 3.2 GHz Pentium 4. I've upgraded the laptop to 2 GB RAM, a 320 GB IDE hard drive, and instead of the DVD drive I added an 1 TB 12,5 mm SATA HD The graphics chip is a Geforce mobility 5200 GO, is it compatible to AROS? My preferred Linux, ZorinOS 9, just results in a black screen, also Android-x86.

Sabbate, is it useful to upgrade a Pentium 4 laptop with a SSD? You won't get more speed out of it as the data bus allows.

Posted on: 2016/11/24 9:03
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Re: Quadcore for 35 Euro!

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Hm, I saw yesterday a YouTube link of this, but i didn't watch.

The use of this thing is also not very sure. The board with 4 Gig RAM and an Intel ATOM Quadcore 500 MHz is $149, but with all addons you come to about $250. For this money you can get various Atom-powered netbooks. Smaller laptops will also do, the Lenovo x61 with 2 GHz Core 2 Duo is also about 240 Euro. AROS works on it, I have a Thinkpad X61 Tablet.

There are various devices to use. If you want something special, you can get a develeoper board, if you want something reliable, get a desktop PC or a laptop with standard hardwre components.

Posted on: 2016/11/24 0:36
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Re: The electric light did not come from the continuous improvement of candles!

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The time for something new is over. The 8-bit-Guy showed this rather good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wDtxYeJdzg

The best thing is to keep the original hardware working and to re-use abandoned software. MorphOS uses PowerPC-Macs now. The ARM-port of AROS could be the base of a replacement for old iPads or Android devices. The processor and graphics power of these things is much more than AROS needs.

Something we should keep in mind: The C64 and Amiga people are probably the most widely used retro community. There's new hardware and software for both systems, the C64 got with the C64 reloaded a completely new motherboard. Even the weird C65 gets with the MEGA65 project a new chance. Of course I'm not familiar with it, but is it the same with other systems, like Atari 800, ST, Sinclair Spectrum, Amstrad CPC etc.? The time of old PC's and old Macs are over, but the Commodore computers live on. 2017 the C64 will get 35 years old.

But for demos, the Amiga is rather uninteresting for me because it has too much CPU speed and too good graphics capabilities. I love Demos on the C64, it's amazing what this machine can do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzQVECn3tY8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLIUkBa_mA0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo7uXaV6Q1s

This demo uses the sound routine from L-Man: It allows two SID channels and one the third three samples will be mixed in realtime. The second video shows this a bit better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzQVECn3tY8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI5d6Y0Fzl4

Here's something you all know:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0e1Mv52A5U

Posted on: 2016/11/23 13:30
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Re: Quadcore for 35 Euro!

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1. Yep, the C64 and the C128 is also a Personal Computer, it is written on the sticker. The Raspberry (and much others) don't have a sticker like this, so they aren't personal computers. Bad Joke. We all know that a Raspberry is an experimental machine and not compareable to any directly working computer, not even to the ZX Spectrum (aka Timex 1000).

2. Can you run ALL Windows and Linux programs available for x86 processors at the same Speed/Ghz ratio? OSx86 isn't illegal depending on the the country. In Europe it's legal if you have an OS X 10.6.3 retail DVD. By the way, is Linux legal? At least it's a rip-off of the propriarety AT&T UNIX. OSx86 doesn't need to reverse-engeneering code, it's all done with the bootloader Clover or Chameleon.

3. On x86 AROS runs native.

4. No, the comparison is not fair because this thread was ment for the *upgrade* of an existing system. I already said this.

5a. THESE are news. Do you also knew that the speed of the whole system is depending on the RAM speed?

5b. See for yourself:

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/206/ ... _vs_Intel_Xeon_E5472.html

The CPU core/TDP ratio is also better: The C2D E8400 has 32.5, the Xeon E5472 has 20.

5c. The Xeon has the same command set like the Core 2 Duo, including the C1E power saving bit. I'm using my Xeon with a 150W graphics card and two harddrives with a 400W PSU, no problems.

5d. Wrong. The C2D E8400 and the Xeon E5450 are staying both around 50° in BIOS with the same fan/case configuration. While checking temperatures in the system it may reach in heavy load about 62°, without load it's beyond 50°.

PC processors have since a looooong time temperature diodes and will switch themselves off. Older processors like the Socket A AMD Duron or Athlon didn't have one, if you overclock it and remove the cooler, it will explode. No melting.

Experience: I have my C64 since 1989, my A500 since 1991, my A4000T since 1998 and I've building PCs since 2004, and I'm in the OSx86 scene since 2006. I got the idea with the Xeon this year or perhaps last year by accident, because somebody sold on ebay a computer with Asus board with a Xeon E5450. So I bought one. I was very surprised that it had Socket 771. But because I'm always informing about what I do, it didn't take long to do the rework multiple times - successfully. If you're telling me that you have experiences with Xeons and all of your information were wrong, that's... well, no comment. And it seems that you have not read the first post completely: The Core 2 Quad Q6600 which is in a similar price range, is much worse.

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/317/ ... _vs_Intel_Xeon_E5472.html

The much cheaper Xeon E5450 and the E5472 outmatches even the Q2Q Q9650 because it has a lower power consumption:

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/325/ ... _vs_Intel_Xeon_E5472.html



I hope this will do. I don't like to fight in forums, but if somebody brings an endless list of information which sounds all negative, then I correct this. The Raspberry and the Arduino may have their uses, but it is not a replacement for a daily-use desktop computer which can run all widely used software.

Posted on: 2016/11/22 8:15

Edited by RC_tech on 2016/11/25 8:11:07
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