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Re: Ingegneria inversa

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Oops. Era Neil e non paolone. Scusate l'errore.

Posted on: 5/19 13:17
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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Nice to see another fanatic (a well known C64/C128 troll, in another Italian forum which "just by case" I had discussions against, and again "just by case" took the chance of this thread to continue to puke something against me) affected by the Olaf & co. disease:

The usual "blah blah blah XYZ... but why don't contribute?!?"

"less talking" is the only thing which I subscribe, but paired with the: rest in topic.

IF you have something to say, of course.

Otherwise, you're free to go back to the trolls paradise where you come from: there'll you find a lot of friends.

Posted on: 5/19 10:26
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Re: Ingegneria inversa

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Di nulla. E' stato un piacere poterti aiutare.

Ormai i bei tempi di cui parli sono ben lontani, il mondo post-Amiga è sprofondato in veleni, odii, e stupidaggini di vario tipo, ed è il motivo per cui ho deciso di tirarmi fuori: disintossicarmi da quest'ambiente insano.
Anche se, purtroppo, il cieco fanatismo c'è anche qui, ma spero che rimanga circoscritto a quei tizi che hai conosciuto nell'altro thread.
Fortunatamente la maggior parte degli utenti sono gente a posto, e soprattutto molto competente: vedrai che potrai imparare un sacco cose utili e interessanti.

Se hai deciso di contribuire ad AROS e hai bisogno di discutere di qualcosa, scrivi pure qui: nei limite della conoscenza (scarsa di AROS, ma un po' di roba del s.o. di Amiga la conosco. Sto messo molto meglio con l'hardware Amiga & la famiglia 68K ) e, soprattutto, di tempo cercherò di darti una mano.

P.S. L'utente di cui parli è paolone (aka Paolo di The Games Machine / Bovabyte): uno storico amighista nonché "trascinatore" / evangelista di AROS.

Posted on: 5/19 6:33
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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I fully understand you. And that's also why I tried to clarify: to help him about such sensible topics, and don't hurt AROS with possibly illegal contributes.

BTW, is there any review system for submitted patches? I mean, something like Gerrit (which is now the de-facto standard. For the good and the bad).

It might help too have more eyes and discussing with young contributors about what they did.

Now... work time. Thanks for taking care, and have a nice day.

Posted on: 5/18 22:34
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Re: Ingegneria inversa

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ross, abbiamo chiarito nel thread di cui sopra.

In sintesi, puoi contribuire ad AROS, ma:

"preferably things are implemented from scratch using publicly available information.

using things like ReSource to generate code and import it is definitely not ok, even if such generated binaries get "accepted" in places such as the aminet."

Quindi se il tuo contributo arriva da un'operazione di reverse-engineering, può andare bene a patto che non ricopi quel codice.

Dunque se generi codice nuovo dopo che hai capito come funziona quello originale -> OK!

Posted on: 5/18 21:53
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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Quote:

ncafferkey wrote:
Who is this mysterious Ross, and why is it harder for him to contribute to AROS than it is for anyone else?

As wawa already stated, he's an EAB user which is a coder, which's mostly interested on doing low-level stuff.

He's interested in 68K coding, but also in AROS, so I think he can help covering some AROS holes in this area, and optimize some parts, to make it more suitable for those very low-end machines.

He speaks Italian, and so he asked some questions regarding reverse-engineering, patches, etc., in the Italian subforum. We had a discussion about it, but after origami joined the conversation I've translated most of the issues in English, to expand the audience and see what the AROS contributors say about the argument.

Kalamatee already clarified all the questions, so I think he shouldn't have problems contributing to AROS.

But I don't know if he can have problems contributing due to contractual constraints. That's up to him to clarify.
Quote:

wawa wrote:
Quote:

ncafferkey wrote:
Who is this mysterious Ross, and why is it harder for him to contribute to AROS than it is for anyone else?


all i know is that ross is a guy who got aros to compile (in cygwin i think) over on eab and got interested with aros (development). looks like he is italian and got into dispute with cdimauro about some legal questions here in an italian subforum. im not sure, its him who makes up problems here..

It's clear from his very first post ( http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/vi ... id=104289#forumpost104289 ) that he was asking questions about legality. Even a rough translation with Google is enough to understand it, but paolone can confirm it.

I've just tried to answer him.

So, yes: it was the guy which started the discussion about such arguments, because... guess what: may be he CARES ABOUT LEGALITY.

Anyway, I just gave MY opinion about it, AFTER he has opened the thread.

Like Olaf, being the usual fanatic, you're trying to accuse me of something which I haven't started. And that's just because you didn't like what I've stated, dear defenders of the faith (AROS + 68K).
Quote:
this whole discussion is such a waste of time again. just like on aw.net.

It's almost 2 years that I don't write on aw, and I'm not registered to EAB.

But guess who are the two fanatics that still, constantly, spread their religion, going off-topic and making people nervous...

In Italy we say something like: you have the face as your back (to be polite)...

@Fats: fair enough. Thanks for explaining your vision.

Posted on: 5/18 21:44
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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Thanks for the complete, precise, answer which covers the raised doubts.

I quote and fully commit every single word of what you said: we are perfectly aligned here.

I think that ross can clearly continue with its project/idea, and can contribute to AROS.

I only reply to the following point:

Quote:

Kalamatee wrote:
Quote:

cdimauro wrote:

@wawa & paolone: I prefer to avoid talking about 68K et all in this thread. I'll open another on that argument when I've some time.


Well 68k is really the only thing that could be reverse engineered in the context of AROS. There is code already available for practically anything else you can think of if you look hard enough, so examples of implementing things shouldn't be a problem.

I know, but in the 68K thread I wanted to talk about the 68K status, development of the platform, and future possibilities.

AROS is "orthogonal" to it. Of course, I think that it's and will be the primary actor as THE o.s. of such platform.

Time elapsed: now I've to go work. Nice day to everybody.

Posted on: 5/17 22:32
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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Quote:

miker wrote:
@cdimauro,

If you are talking about AROS then you are absolutely talking about
Amiga OS 68k. It's part of AROS, AmiBridge. That's what it's all
about -- Amiga OS!

"The Amiga o.s.", and not "Amiga OS": the latter was never used in the Amiga world, 'til Commodore demise, and invented by its "successors".

Aside this caveat, Kalamatee already answered about what's really AROS.

Anyway, AmiBridge is a completely different thing: it's an Amiga (the FULL machine: not only the o.s.!) emulator (UAE) transparently & (more) easily (for the user) integrated in AROS.

This has nothing to do with AROS, except that... it's integrated. UAE is available in many flavors & for many o.ses already, and Windows doesn't become "Amiga 68Kish" only because people can use it.
Quote:
Everything you have said here is irrelevant. If you have doubts about
contributing to AROS, then don't.

I don't understand why you and Olaf (which has written the same thing both here and in the Apollo forum) don't understand the topic and the importance of the things which we discussed, and refuge yourself in the common logical fallacy of changing the argument and move the discussion about a completely different one.

The usual "blah blah blah XYZ... but why don't contribute?!?". Apples and oranges...

I know that some people don't care about legality, but in the real world, as I've already explained, it works quite differently.

For example, Intel is one of the best open source contributors. It's known for begin the leader in the silicon industry, but... the second thing for which its known is... its lawyers department.

Legality matters. And it's important to discuss about it.

If AROS has APL has its source license, it's because of that, and not because the first guy which started the project just picked randomly one...

Posted on: 5/17 22:25
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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I beg to disagree. IMO the best thing of AROS is its R=Research.

AROS is an o.s. which is lacking a lot of modern features, but it's also very small. Hence, it gives A LOT of opportunities for developers that like to tinker.

Having its "roots" on the Amiga o.s. is also something very cool, because the o.s. is completely different from the usual POSIX-clone (it seams that a new o.s. should be, in some way, "derived" from Unix & co.. BLEARGH! I don't like such "flatness" over the same "model/philosophy").

And, of course, as amigans, we are also familiar with it.

/OT

Posted on: 5/17 13:06
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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Quote:

origami wrote:
@paolone:
I couldn't agree more...

But, as far as my understanding goes towards online translated texts, the whole point of user ross starting the discussion is to accomplish this task e.g. implement missing features.

So, in case i understood correctly then user ross is exploring his options.

Yes. But IMO it's better to clarify if for AROS it was made use of reverse-engineering (of the Amiga o.s.) or not.

This might have implications about the possibility of contribution.

How was developed AROS? Consequently, could AROS integrate work derived from reversing operations?

@wawa & paolone: I prefer to avoid talking about 68K et all in this thread. I'll open another on that argument when I've some time.

Posted on: 5/17 12:22
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