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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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@cdimauro,

If you are talking about AROS then you are absolutely talking about
Amiga OS 68k. It's part of AROS, AmiBridge. That's what it's all
about -- Amiga OS!

Everything you have said here is irrelevant. If you have doubts about
contributing to AROS, then don't.

Posted on: 5/17 15:12
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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Amiga OS 68k and AROS are firmly linked. The roots of AROS are 68k and the look and feel or AROS is what attracts users like me and software developers familiar with coding for the Amiga platform. You cannot take away the heart of AROS without destroying it completely or making it into something else entirely! I find it to be a pleasant idea to compile for AROS, AROS 68k, Amiga 68k & MS Windows as well.
(I have several programs I created in MS Visual Studio).

I personally am programming for AROS for different reasons. I actually enjoy the prospect of contributing my software to a constantly improving and increasingly popular operating system such as AROS. I don't however approve of calling it "AROS Research Operating System" as "Research" may be misleading to new users who would like to know if it is a research project that never ends, or if someday it will be useful?

Nevertheless, I do have disk imaging software that has taken me several years to complete and I won't contribute that to AROS because some day I might sell it. But icon and graphics programs can be shared freely with AROS. They are much fun to write and I enjoy seeing others benefit from it.


Posted on: 5/17 12:51
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Re: Icaros Desktop MultiView

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Of course, paolone, everything I do for AROS is APL. I'm planning two Full Featured icon programs PNG Icon Edit and PNG Icon Paint. As far as Multiview I looked at DataTypes Library. DTM-Write is "NOT YET IMPLEMENTED" as aha and origami have graciously pointed out. Maybe I could write a small program to allow writing IFF ILBM images and we link it to Multiview till the DataTypes Write functions are operational. But I believe in "Build it and Somone will find a Use". So I'll write the IFF ILBM program and we can decide then.

Here is the temporary workaround concept: Use a standalone executable called "SaveAsIFF" for simplicity that accepts as input IFF or PNG and as output IFF. And a second one called "SaveAsPNG" that accepts IFF as input. MultiView would call the executables with input (original filename) and the output (selected filename). Then using that code maybe then we could focus on fixing the DTM_Write for IFF so that MultiView and other programs will work correctly. It may take a week or two to finish and test both programs.

I have started SaveAsIFF and I will use it to "LOAD" and "SAVE" an IFF image. I will try to do the same with SaveAsPNG for PNG images. I opened a PNG image with MultiView then saved it. But it only saved the "Mask" with no image. Not sure if there is a problem with PNG.datatype.

After examining MultiView and some datatypes such as BMP, PNG, and ILBM it might be better to set up a test program and revise the datatype(s) to Load, Display, and Save images. That might take about three or four weeks. Having used C# for the last ten years I'm still learning some aspects of C programming, which is slightly different and in many ways better!

Posted on: 5/17 7:20

Edited by miker on 2017/5/17 12:21:53
Edited by miker on 2017/5/17 12:24:03
Edited by miker on 2017/5/18 12:08:23
Edited by miker on 2017/5/18 12:12:31
Edited by miker on 2017/5/18 12:13:16
Edited by miker on 2017/5/18 12:17:36
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Re: Are icotools available for AROS?

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My new icon tool Icon2Png will be released in the next few days. After adding some comments to the code and some testing I'll post it.

The same code can be used for my next project Icon Info which will verify and list the contents of Png icons. This will include data for all chunks including Ic0n chunk. In the near future I'd like to make a GUI for Icon2Png that will perhaps be called "PNG Icon Extract".

I'd like to re-use that user interface layout for yet another tool called "PNG Icon Exchange" featuring Drag n Drop icon exchange like Magellan does. These are all small tools leading up to the first Full Featured Icon Program which is "PNG Icon Edit". It should be finished in the next three months. That will lead to my second icon program called "PNG Icon Paint". I'll post some conceptual layout images tomorrow. More coming soon...

Would it be useful to have an icon extract tool for AROS that extracts Windows and perhaps Mac OS icon images?

@origami has a very nice icon program as well. Maybe paolone would be kind enough to include some of our icon tools in the next release of Icaros Desktop?

Posted on: 5/17 7:07

Edited by miker on 2017/5/17 12:57:04
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Re: Icaros Desktop MultiView

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Thanks. That helps to narrow down the problem.

I'm not yet fully familiar with DataTypes so I'll ask some questions so that I understand the problem. "DTM_Write" functionality is missing? Does that mean the entire DataTypes System is incomplete or just IFF-ILBM Picture DataType? If it's just IFF-ILBM maybe I can help to fix that since I have already done that at a binary level.

Posted on: 5/16 13:08
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AROS Shell Issues on Icaros Desktop

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I've noticed a few things about the shell in Icaros Desktop. First, when displaying large amounts of text in the shell then minimizing, or iconifying then opening it to the previous size again the contents of the shell are missing! It is as if the shell window contents were invalidated but when restored to its previous size it wasn't repainted to the screen! Is that a problem with Graphics Library? Or my graphics driver? (Nouveau). And if I decide to paint parts of my own user interface would that suffer from the same re-paint problems?

In other applications on other operating systems that I'm familiar with these operations are handed in the "OnPaint" so that when a window is minimized then maximized it gets repainted, especially when it is "discovered" after being behind another window and brought to front. How is the OnPaint operations handled in AROS? Can elements of the user interface for my programs be custom painted in "UserPaint" mode? I may have to do a few Graphics Library Experiments in the near future.

Posted on: 5/16 12:55
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Icaros Desktop MultiView

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In recent days while writing an icon program on Icaros Desktop I have noticed a few things. MultiView has no problem opening and displaying PNG images, but it only displays IFF-ILBM images! It won't save them as IFF-ILBM. And if I open the same IFF and try to save as something else it still is greyed out in the menu...can't save IFF!

Perhaps it is related to SDL Image which has full functionality to Open IFF-ILBM but it doesn't allow saving those same images. I wrote my own SAVE AS IFF-ILBM functions for my IFF Icon Edit program including Bitwise operations for Chunky to Planar and Planar to Chunky. That was lots of fun!

So why does MultiView refuse to save IFF-ILBM that is supposed to be Amiga standard image format. If we are being true to Amiga roots, why can't we save...Just wondering if I can help with that?? After I finish my Icon2PNG program in the next few days maybe I can look into the MultiView issue with IFF files.

Any ideas as to why MultiView can't save IFF-ILBM? Something missing in the program? Is it an incomplete DataType, or faulty DataTypes system error?

Posted on: 5/16 12:36
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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@paolone wrote:

QUOTE:

"That's because of the sick, poor state of the Amiga platform as a whole: where innovation and real money lack, the only remaining things are dogmas like "the trademark", "the IP", "the copyright". Remnants, legacy of an antique golden era. This era has ended long ago, though. Please get real: we are talking about a 30-years old code no serious judge in the world would dare to spend a minute with. There are no millions of dollars involved
in this market anymore, and all this talking about possible lawsuits is just a poor way to scare people. There's probably even nothing worth looking at, in AmigaOS 3.x code, anyway, since AROS has already progressed farther. So please stop all this madness and enjoy what AROS does."

************************************

I must agree that, due to the current situation, the owners of OS4 or OS3.x allowing AROS devlopers the chance to cooperate with them in writing new code for AROS based on old sources is a remote possibility. This "distrust" or unwillingness to cooperate is caused mainly by the fragmentation that has happened in the Amiga community over the years since the demise of Commodore! But there have been recent indications that that situation may change, and in turn offering us all better software and hardware to choose from.

As far as "Reverse Engineering" or "Clean-Room Reverse Engineering" we must make some distinctions and clarifications. If we examine a piece of software and take note of its functionality then recreate that using all original code that is not Reverse Engineering, that is called "Invention" and "Creativity"! For example if Apple writes code for Mac OS X that is similar to the "Snap-Together" windows that are used on newer versions of MS Windows that is perfectly ok as long as they implement it with new code. Likewise, if Microsoft creates their own version of the Mac OS "spinning wheel" progress indicator that is merely taking advantage of a good idea. And if AROS developers, myself included, port Linux modules
or libraries such as SDL, SDL Image, PNG Library, etc and we include this in our code, as long as we pay attention to the License for that software we are ok to copy, modify or use that Linux source code. Whether it is SDL, PNG, or another module called "AFFS" (Linux implementation of Amiga file systems) that interests me, using these sources is permitted. Some of my IFF-ILBM code is based on original codefrom SDL Image, and this may be quite useful to get AROS MultiView to be able to open and save IFF-ILBM.

When writing my icon and graphics programs whether I look at SDL sources or Directory Opus Magellan, or even if I make my user interface very similar to the look and feel of the Amiga OS 3.5 "Icon Edit" that is because of Nostalgia and Aesthetics. It isn't violating anything. Another example is the Apollo Team who have Re-implemented the 68k CPU code and the original AGA chipset while also improving upon them. These examples illustrate the difference between "Reverse Engineering" and "Re-implementation" base on
all original code. There is a difference! But perhaps more cooperation and cross-compiling and sharing or source code, where Licenses allow, is a good thing? That might help to repair some of the distrustand fragementation in the Amiga community of which AROS distros and other Amiga-like OS'es is a part. With that in mind, I intend to compile my software for multiple Amiga-like systems including AROS, AROS 68k, and even Amiga OS 68k if possible.

Posted on: 5/16 11:04
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Re: current state of aros 68k..

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On Apollo cpu forum Nixus Minimax reported that AROS needs special drivers because it doesn't currently work well without Cybergraphics or specialized, accelerated RTG. So AROS runs on Apollo accelerator boards, but rendering is very slow currently.

Posted on: 5/14 15:31
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Re: current state of aros 68k..

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If operating on Amiga + Vampire at higher resolutions over HDMI it should be using RTG not planar so colors won't matter as much? I'll test that when it's installed.

Posted on: 5/14 11:08
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