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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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A patent costs A LOT of money, and generates more money due to licensing and/or patent-exchange.


Sure but that's their business, not mine. I don't force people to use my code, I just put some conditions on the use of my code and it's not even monetary.

Quote:

AROS generates... how much? Is it interesting for being adopted by some company (to make profits)?


I don't mind companies using my code for monetary gains but also don't mind no company doing that. I just enjoy writing the code and some retro fanatics getting their fix when using AROS.

Quote:

Between losing its IP and the rights to use AROS' sources, I don't think that a company can even doubt about what choice to make.


I don't see what is wrong with companies having to make a choice for using the code I put on the net for free. It's just the requirement I put on my code; take it or leave it.

Quote:

Maybe you don't know how the real world works, and the interests which are around patents and IPs.


You shouldn't make assumptions on other people. As inventor on a patent or three I unfortunately know how the system works. A system that was originally meant to encourage inventors to work on ideas and be sure to not starve to death but evolved to big company patent portfolio's used to crush competition and startups and for patent trolls for pure monetary gain and not doing anything productive themselves.

Quote:

At least the change that I've exposed before can lead to an opportunity for fixing the breach: reading the APL, the owner can decide to contact the contributor, instead of proceeding with a lawsuit.


I does not solve anything it's just an encouragement to bother a guy with legal matters that puts his free code in the world.
Anyway, the base for patent infringement lawsuits are the monetary gains from using the patent unlicensed. For a guy putting his source code in a public repository this is near zero. That's why the patent owners and trolls will go after the companies who sell product that use the code. And anyway code in itself is not patentable, it's ideas/processes that are patentable.
We already have copyright to protect the hard work of programming and patents are not needed for software.

Posted on: 5/18 13:20
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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ncafferkey wrote:
Who is this mysterious Ross, and why is it harder for him to contribute to AROS than it is for anyone else?


all i know is that ross is a guy who got aros to compile (in cygwin i think) over on eab and got interested with aros (development). looks like he is italian and got into dispute with cdimauro about some legal questions here in an italian subforum. im not sure, its him who makes up problems here.. this whole discussion is such a waste of time again. just like on aw.net.

Posted on: 5/18 20:09
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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About Ross, any link?

Posted on: 5/18 21:28
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p.bes
Icaros Desktop AROS distribution mantainer
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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paolone wrote:
About Ross, any link?

This was enough for me (notice the thread in case post doesn't tell you anything).

Posted on: 5/18 21:37
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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ncafferkey wrote:
Who is this mysterious Ross, and why is it harder for him to contribute to AROS than it is for anyone else?

As wawa already stated, he's an EAB user which is a coder, which's mostly interested on doing low-level stuff.

He's interested in 68K coding, but also in AROS, so I think he can help covering some AROS holes in this area, and optimize some parts, to make it more suitable for those very low-end machines.

He speaks Italian, and so he asked some questions regarding reverse-engineering, patches, etc., in the Italian subforum. We had a discussion about it, but after origami joined the conversation I've translated most of the issues in English, to expand the audience and see what the AROS contributors say about the argument.

Kalamatee already clarified all the questions, so I think he shouldn't have problems contributing to AROS.

But I don't know if he can have problems contributing due to contractual constraints. That's up to him to clarify.
Quote:

wawa wrote:
Quote:

ncafferkey wrote:
Who is this mysterious Ross, and why is it harder for him to contribute to AROS than it is for anyone else?


all i know is that ross is a guy who got aros to compile (in cygwin i think) over on eab and got interested with aros (development). looks like he is italian and got into dispute with cdimauro about some legal questions here in an italian subforum. im not sure, its him who makes up problems here..

It's clear from his very first post ( http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/vi ... id=104289#forumpost104289 ) that he was asking questions about legality. Even a rough translation with Google is enough to understand it, but paolone can confirm it.

I've just tried to answer him.

So, yes: it was the guy which started the discussion about such arguments, because... guess what: may be he CARES ABOUT LEGALITY.

Anyway, I just gave MY opinion about it, AFTER he has opened the thread.

Like Olaf, being the usual fanatic, you're trying to accuse me of something which I haven't started. And that's just because you didn't like what I've stated, dear defenders of the faith (AROS + 68K).
Quote:
this whole discussion is such a waste of time again. just like on aw.net.

It's almost 2 years that I don't write on aw, and I'm not registered to EAB.

But guess who are the two fanatics that still, constantly, spread their religion, going off-topic and making people nervous...

In Italy we say something like: you have the face as your back (to be polite)...

@Fats: fair enough. Thanks for explaining your vision.

Posted on: 5/18 21:44
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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@cdimauro
Sorry for getting you into problems, but also @general as this discussion seems to land somewhere where it does not belong.

It is not about discussing the legality of the approaches one can take, but about what road is (or are) acceptable for AROS.

What would you rather have: a newbie that reverse engineers parts of amigaOS, drivers, etc. and just contributes to the ARSOS tree without knowing where that knowledge comes from or someone that kindly asks beforehand what might be acceptable ?

That is why i opted to ask in English as well, since most AROS developers don't speak Italian (afaik) and AROS devs usually knows best in these cases.

It is nothing more, nothing less then just that: someone that would like to contribute but does not know for sure what methods are acceptable and what methods are not.

Posted on: 5/18 22:05
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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I fully understand you. And that's also why I tried to clarify: to help him about such sensible topics, and don't hurt AROS with possibly illegal contributes.

BTW, is there any review system for submitted patches? I mean, something like Gerrit (which is now the de-facto standard. For the good and the bad).

It might help too have more eyes and discussing with young contributors about what they did.

Now... work time. Thanks for taking care, and have a nice day.

Posted on: 5/18 22:34
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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5/10 9:10
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Thanks to everyone (although often the debate is derailed).
Each of my questions has been fully answered (as origami said the whole point is implement some missing 68k features).

All is started whit some simple questions and nothing more (no detriology of any kind!)

Ciao!
ross

Posted on: 5/19 3:30
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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Hi there,

Nice to see that cdimauro has not lost his argumentative nature. I really missed his kilometric posts and line by line rebuttals.

In any case.

On reverse-engineering. Here is my idea from a real pragmatic approach - less talking more coding - then you can see is someone is bothered by the reverse-engineering. As to say "act now, ask for forgiveness later".

On the 68K - my sense that there are many more users that would love to see development for the classic Amiga, vast majority of which are not in a forum or do not participate in the 'scene'.

On Ross - Nothing wrong in asking, is the reaction to the question that is amusing. But then again I mainly hang out in C64 / C128 forums and only every so often I come here when I need help.

See ya.



Posted on: 5/19 10:20
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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2013/4/21 1:35
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Nice to see another fanatic (a well known C64/C128 troll, in another Italian forum which "just by case" I had discussions against, and again "just by case" took the chance of this thread to continue to puke something against me) affected by the Olaf & co. disease:

The usual "blah blah blah XYZ... but why don't contribute?!?"

"less talking" is the only thing which I subscribe, but paired with the: rest in topic.

IF you have something to say, of course.

Otherwise, you're free to go back to the trolls paradise where you come from: there'll you find a lot of friends.

Posted on: 5/19 10:26
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