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Aros on Intel

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I have been looking at the GMA thread and wanted to talk about what someone had said.
I believe someone, I think clusterUK, had talked about supporting Aros completely on a particular platform.
I think it would be good idea to do so and want to encourage the devs to do so.
What platform do you think is the best?
I think clusterUK had a good idea about supporting the atom.
Thanks.

Posted on: 2011/12/10 10:41
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Re: Aros on Intel
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"Best" is in the eye of the Beholder.
Addiionally the intel atoms arent any better supported than any other cpu on aros. The reson it gets a bit of attention is largely due to 2 vocal aros people in Nikolaos and ClusterUK promoting it for thier own products and interests. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

It all comes down to what you want to do really, but if your computer interests require a decent amount of grunt then Id steer clear of atoms, but if your needs are basic, you dont like to use heavier emulated software, you dont want to watch 1080p video, you dont compile, you use no 3d rendering software, you dont have more than a few bits of moderately heavy software running at once, etc, etc. then it will suffice.

Personally I use a core2duo system on a 945 based mobo + gf9600gt and it all works brilliantly for my needs, and somewhat faster than the exact same cpu + ram + gfx card on g31/g33 based mobos Ive also used.
Long story short, there's plenty of well supported hardware for aros nowadays and really no need to target one system (if I wanted to be limited for choice and have to buy specific hardware Id probably be using AmigaOS4). Some works better than others, but if a person has any sort of computer literacy at all then it's not hard to put together a fully supported, well functioning aros box.

Posted on: 2011/12/10 21:01
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Re: Aros on Intel

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As usual fishy_fis makes good points, but there is a flaw in that thinking.

If you are capable of collecting these bits and building them like some of us are then getting an NVidia machine up and running is cheap. If doing it new then it is not quite so cheap. To me it was paying for drivers for a machine that could be built new for around £100 with a bit of profit on top for builders.

It is true that the Atom does not have the grunt of a faster system but for most basic tasks it is more than adequate with the proper drivers sharing the work, and no it is not for developers etc. However, Fishy hates Atom's and that is it

The next generation atom boards which I believe are nearly supported cost about £45, add a case (£25) memory (£10) and a cheap drive (not sure on the drive now) and away you go.

Finally as most of the Atom boards are dual core, if Aros goes AMP or SMP then both 1.6ghz cores are available and it becomes even better,

Remember this will most likely be a fun second machine not a first use it for everything machine.

Oh and on HD, mine can play 720p quite easily and with dual core support then full HD should be feasible. Remember and this is important Fishy, Aros and other OS's cannot read the BlueRays drives so it is down to downloading videos and 720p runs fine and looks great.

Then of course there is the netbook argument but that one is too obvious.

Posted on: 2011/12/11 2:29
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Re: Aros on Intel

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There is simply a need for full supported platforms, preferly something that is for sale new today. In PC world this can be tricky cause models change all the time and even the same models come with differnt hardware. It should also be one high-end laptop model fully supported. PC-boxes like ArosOne or to build a AROS-box should not be that difficult, but as people use computers today, they are to most not that interesting.

This is how it should be.

Netbooks - Atom based
Laptops - High end CPU with Nvidia
Stationary - ARES one or build from hardware that is reported to work.

Posted on: 2011/12/11 4:50
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Re: Aros on Intel

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I have enjoyed putting together an Aros computer built from spare parts, and also have a dual boot Aros setup on my desktop machine.

Many people do not like tinkering with hardware. They want a pre-built, out of the box, plug and play, fully functioning Aros system. That's cool too.

There are others who can never seem to find the supported hardware that's available. They say that Aros is immature and buggy because it doesn't run well on their old laptop, native or hosted. Maybe Aeros will be the answer for these people.

But no matter if it's been pre-built or a custom box, I agree that Aros would benefit with multi-core support. Since phase 1 has been completed, perhaps now is the time to write a bounty to finish the job. Most recent processors are multi-core. It's a shame to waste the extra 'grunt' we already have in our systems.

Posted on: 2011/12/11 6:35
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Re: Aros on Intel
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To elaborate a little the very same things a Win/Linux would consider also apply to AROS when it comes to an atom based system. Basically if a persons needs can be satisfied with a netbook then an atom will suffice. As a positive however the experience will only get better with time as drivers mature and new functionality and support is added. Not only are atoms dual core, but they also support hyperthreading in those that arent (and I think also for atoms with 2 physical cores (ie. 4 threads)).

On the mainstream platforms an atom can indeed play full hd video (which is about 220% the resoultion of 720p incidently 921600 vs. 20743600 pixels per frame), and with only 25% or so cpu usage (although this is largely in part to gpu hardware decoding of video).

Thankfully the vast, vast majority (Id hazzard a guess 90%+) of 945 derived core logic also contains 82810 i/o (ich7) controllers. It's this hardware that gives the aspire one 110/150, and laptops based on p4 based celeron, p4, core, coreduo, core2, and core2 duo such good compatibility and performance with aros. This of course also applies to desktop hardware of the same families too (p4 celeron, p4, core, coreduo, core2 celeron, core2 and core2 duo). Currently it really is the core logic chipset of choice for an aros box. Unfortunately AMD has no parallel on aros apart from maybe nforce2 (athlon/athlon xp (maybe nf3 as well (s754 a64))), and as such amd hardware isnt a great choice for aros. It'll still work fine in many cases, but you simply wont get the same sort support, ergo often weaker performance than otherwise might be the case (not to mention amds latest offerings are about 3 generations behind intel,..... bulldozer struggles to compete with the last of the core2 family even).

So at the moment there's basically 2 choices if you want a "good" (for lack of a better word) AROS machine.

low-end: something like an aspire one, or some other older s775 based system.
mid-spec: core2 based hardware.

While AROS will run on higher end hardware (i5/i7) theyre all ich10/11 based if I recall correctly which have little more than rudimentary support.

Hopefully this will answer most of the questions you may have had.

On a sidenote though, before when I mentioned chosing specific hardware wasnt something I thought was a great idea I mean more from the perspective of chosing a specific machine or 2. The better idea in my humble opinion is to support a few heavily used components. This leads to a wider variety of hardware working nicely. An example of this is the iMica systems. The platform itself wasnt a roaring success, but due to it using common components the repercussions were of much bigger importance for aros.

Perhaps a little ironically (being both amd and netbook cpu), my vote would be for Zacate due to its popularity (on its way to dethroning the atom in that market segment), and the hardware support required would bring a few new things to aros.

Posted on: 2011/12/11 6:58
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Re: Aros on Intel

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I might be wrong, but there have been three basic attempts at standardizing on a particular x86 platform in AROS history...

- Dammy's athlon stuff
- clusteruk's Imica stuff (Aspire OS tags off this work)
- Phoenixconsoles stuff

What has this shown us?
1.) Someone needs to identify drivers/hardware to support
2.) Someone has to do the work (for pay or fun)
3.) The hardware marketplace keeps changing.
4.) People like to source their hardware themselves, and try whatever they have on hand (pre built for windows, linux, macos, android, amigados, whatever) before buying an AROS customized system from an AROS related vendor.
5.) AROS wasn't user-friendly or otherwise good enough in some other ways to pull in a significant (amiga)user base when any of those past attempts were done.

I don't think you can identify a "best" currently which will hold water for long. Just encourage developers like Deadwood, Sami and Neil who are doing "something" hardware support wise with the current drivers and of course anyone working on #5 which includes the m68k works, the hosted works, the paper cuts, New apps, etc.






Posted on: 2011/12/11 7:24

Edited by edwberger on 2011/12/11 8:02:30
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Re: Aros on Intel
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While a constantly changing market is a bit of a thorn in the side of a system with as few developers as aros at least we're in a position where we (aros users) can buy a system whose hardware power can mostly outweighs the software that runs on it.
Even my 3 year old core2duo@4.1ghz aros box is overkill most of the time. Only reason I even went that far was so I have the resources available on those rare occasions I need them, plus the fact its easy to "raw speed" your way to some useful functionality thats not an option without it (I have a lot of custom scripts using compression/decompression for example, which benefits greatly from raw grunt).

Yes, it's not as easy as walking into a shop and buying without thinking, but it is quite easy to put together a nicely supported system.

Not that I want to start any sort of "vs." thing, but hardware wise we're 100x better off than os4 or mos, whether it be performance, price, or availability.

Posted on: 2011/12/11 8:50
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Re: Aros on Intel

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Well i think in the moment AROS users have plenty of supported options.
Imica, ATOM based Netbooks and PC's
AresOne is AMD based (still.. but may change)

Thanks to gallium we have now 3D on Nvidia and Intel... ATI maybe next.

With Deadwoods HostGL you can use AROS hosted with 3D on nearly everything.
I think 2012 will be the year of AROS... well since 2009 i think every year was an "AROS year".

Posted on: 2011/12/11 9:07
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Re: Aros on Intel

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Quote:

phoenixkonsole wrote:

I think 2012 will be the year of AROS... well since 2009 i think every year was an "AROS year".


That is why we love you Pascal, optimism backed up with the work to make it happen

But I think you may have a point this time.

Posted on: 2011/12/12 1:02
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