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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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Quote:

wawa wrote:
Quote:

ncafferkey wrote:
I don't know how you reach that conclusion from what I wrote.


considering aros license is permissive and doenst impose ssuch restrioctions as gpl at least perts of code might be used in projects published under different licensing. if that is the case i dont think there is the limit as to how much of aros (the part under apl) could be forked that way.

maybe im thinking wrong. and certainly i have no purpose on my mind. i was just wondering.

The problem with the GPL is that its "viralness" extends towards everything that it "touches": it's enough that a bunch of GPLed lines of code go inside a file of project, to extend its ill-fated effects to everything (files that used this "infected" file, and so on).

Fortunately, APL is completely different, but its permissiveness doesn't mean that you can ignore its terms, and relicense its code as you wish: the APL is still valid even when you distribute / use its code in another project which has a different license. In this case, you have a "mixed-licenses" case.

Posted on: 5/17 12:18
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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Quote:

origami wrote:
@paolone:
I couldn't agree more...

But, as far as my understanding goes towards online translated texts, the whole point of user ross starting the discussion is to accomplish this task e.g. implement missing features.

So, in case i understood correctly then user ross is exploring his options.

Yes. But IMO it's better to clarify if for AROS it was made use of reverse-engineering (of the Amiga o.s.) or not.

This might have implications about the possibility of contribution.

How was developed AROS? Consequently, could AROS integrate work derived from reversing operations?

@wawa & paolone: I prefer to avoid talking about 68K et all in this thread. I'll open another on that argument when I've some time.

Posted on: 5/17 12:22
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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Amiga OS 68k and AROS are firmly linked. The roots of AROS are 68k and the look and feel or AROS is what attracts users like me and software developers familiar with coding for the Amiga platform. You cannot take away the heart of AROS without destroying it completely or making it into something else entirely! I find it to be a pleasant idea to compile for AROS, AROS 68k, Amiga 68k & MS Windows as well.
(I have several programs I created in MS Visual Studio).

I personally am programming for AROS for different reasons. I actually enjoy the prospect of contributing my software to a constantly improving and increasingly popular operating system such as AROS. I don't however approve of calling it "AROS Research Operating System" as "Research" may be misleading to new users who would like to know if it is a research project that never ends, or if someday it will be useful?

Nevertheless, I do have disk imaging software that has taken me several years to complete and I won't contribute that to AROS because some day I might sell it. But icon and graphics programs can be shared freely with AROS. They are much fun to write and I enjoy seeing others benefit from it.


Posted on: 5/17 12:51
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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I beg to disagree. IMO the best thing of AROS is its R=Research.

AROS is an o.s. which is lacking a lot of modern features, but it's also very small. Hence, it gives A LOT of opportunities for developers that like to tinker.

Having its "roots" on the Amiga o.s. is also something very cool, because the o.s. is completely different from the usual POSIX-clone (it seams that a new o.s. should be, in some way, "derived" from Unix & co.. BLEARGH! I don't like such "flatness" over the same "model/philosophy").

And, of course, as amigans, we are also familiar with it.

/OT

Posted on: 5/17 13:06
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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@cdimauro,

If you are talking about AROS then you are absolutely talking about
Amiga OS 68k. It's part of AROS, AmiBridge. That's what it's all
about -- Amiga OS!

Everything you have said here is irrelevant. If you have doubts about
contributing to AROS, then don't.

Posted on: 5/17 15:12
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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2004/3/29 9:54
From Scotland "The Cold"
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Quote:

cdimauro wrote:
Quote:

origami wrote:
@paolone:
I couldn't agree more...

But, as far as my understanding goes towards online translated texts, the whole point of user ross starting the discussion is to accomplish this task e.g. implement missing features.

So, in case i understood correctly then user ross is exploring his options.

Yes. But IMO it's better to clarify if for AROS it was made use of reverse-engineering (of the Amiga o.s.) or not.

This might have implications about the possibility of contribution.

How was developed AROS? Consequently, could AROS integrate work derived from reversing operations?


Parts of AROS have clearly been somewhat reverse engineered, and it has always been allowed - though it must be done using a clean room approach if necessary, and not just by copying disassembled code.

Yes, there is evidence of such practices being done early in AROS's life (and only in certain modules), but it is no longer the way AROS is developed, and preferably things are implemented from scratch using publicly available information.

using things like ReSource to generate code and import it is definitely not ok, even if such generated binaries get "accepted" in places such as the aminet.


Quote:

@wawa & paolone: I prefer to avoid talking about 68K et all in this thread. I'll open another on that argument when I've some time.


Well 68k is really the only thing that could be reverse engineered in the context of AROS. There is code already available for practically anything else you can think of if you look hard enough, so examples of implementing things shouldn't be a problem.

Posted on: 5/17 20:37
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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Quote:

miker wrote:
@cdimauro,

If you are talking about AROS then you are absolutely talking about
Amiga OS 68k. It's part of AROS, AmiBridge. That's what it's all
about -- Amiga OS!


Well from AROS's perspective - its the AmigaOS API's that are relevant, not the OS as a whole (though we do of course try to provide the same base components as AmigaOS/Workbench would have, and operate as "close" as is possible/practical). Binary compatibility is only of interest on m68k, and even then AROS tends to err on the side of fixing bugs and improving/implementing new things rather than trying to just be an exact 3.x match.

The main point is the code/implementations/applications should be flexible enough to be configured/used in both minimal systems/environments as well as modern systems. It should be up to the user to configure or use a distribution configured to either look/feel more like classic AmigaOS, or to try and use more demanding/modern features.

Quote:

Everything you have said here is irrelevant. If you have doubts about
contributing to AROS, then don't.


If you have doubts - ask.

Posted on: 5/17 20:45
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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Quote:

miker wrote:
@cdimauro,

If you are talking about AROS then you are absolutely talking about
Amiga OS 68k. It's part of AROS, AmiBridge. That's what it's all
about -- Amiga OS!

"The Amiga o.s.", and not "Amiga OS": the latter was never used in the Amiga world, 'til Commodore demise, and invented by its "successors".

Aside this caveat, Kalamatee already answered about what's really AROS.

Anyway, AmiBridge is a completely different thing: it's an Amiga (the FULL machine: not only the o.s.!) emulator (UAE) transparently & (more) easily (for the user) integrated in AROS.

This has nothing to do with AROS, except that... it's integrated. UAE is available in many flavors & for many o.ses already, and Windows doesn't become "Amiga 68Kish" only because people can use it.
Quote:
Everything you have said here is irrelevant. If you have doubts about
contributing to AROS, then don't.

I don't understand why you and Olaf (which has written the same thing both here and in the Apollo forum) don't understand the topic and the importance of the things which we discussed, and refuge yourself in the common logical fallacy of changing the argument and move the discussion about a completely different one.

The usual "blah blah blah XYZ... but why don't contribute?!?". Apples and oranges...

I know that some people don't care about legality, but in the real world, as I've already explained, it works quite differently.

For example, Intel is one of the best open source contributors. It's known for begin the leader in the silicon industry, but... the second thing for which its known is... its lawyers department.

Legality matters. And it's important to discuss about it.

If AROS has APL has its source license, it's because of that, and not because the first guy which started the project just picked randomly one...

Posted on: 5/17 22:25
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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Thanks for the complete, precise, answer which covers the raised doubts.

I quote and fully commit every single word of what you said: we are perfectly aligned here.

I think that ross can clearly continue with its project/idea, and can contribute to AROS.

I only reply to the following point:

Quote:

Kalamatee wrote:
Quote:

cdimauro wrote:

@wawa & paolone: I prefer to avoid talking about 68K et all in this thread. I'll open another on that argument when I've some time.


Well 68k is really the only thing that could be reverse engineered in the context of AROS. There is code already available for practically anything else you can think of if you look hard enough, so examples of implementing things shouldn't be a problem.

I know, but in the 68K thread I wanted to talk about the 68K status, development of the platform, and future possibilities.

AROS is "orthogonal" to it. Of course, I think that it's and will be the primary actor as THE o.s. of such platform.

Time elapsed: now I've to go work. Nice day to everybody.

Posted on: 5/17 22:32
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Re: Reverse-engineering & AROS license

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Who is this mysterious Ross, and why is it harder for him to contribute to AROS than it is for anyone else?

Posted on: 5/18 13:14
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