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abi v.0 night builds

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Why do we still have abi v.0 night builds?

Before when Deadwood was active he backported code from abi v.1 to v.0 but it is realy not been submitted code to abi v.0 for years.

Does anyone know what is missing to have a stable abi v.1 branch?

It is about time this is looked into and finished for the sake of AROS future. I know we lack developers but maybe we could set up a bounty for it.

If we get a stable abi v.1 I'm pretty sure people start backporting programs to it and we could move away from v.0

I'm thinking I could do a simple AspireOS abi v.1 version where I add whenever new programs are compiled for it. The problem is if it is broken from time to time and everything needs to be recompiled it is just boring.

It could at be a test version where users could report bugs and help the developers.

Posted on: 11/2 14:48

Edited by nikolaos on 2017/11/3 0:57:26
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Re: abi v.0 night builds

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people should contribute their software and ports to ports within aros build tree. these contributions are not being built automatically, but whoever has aros build system can compile them for their target platform. its the best way to keep sources up to date with the development of the operating system itself. rather than porting the stuff to specific platforms and repeating the work after something changed.

Posted on: 11/2 16:33
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Re: abi v.0 night builds

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Quote:
nikolaos wrote:
Why do we still have abi v.0 night builds?

Because v0 is the main stream distro for end-users (Icaros Desktop and friends).

V0 executable are not compatible with v1 executables, or vise verse. That means that every v0 available software title would have to be recompiled for v1.

Quote:

Before when Deadwood was active he backported code from abi v.1 to v.0 but it is realy not been submitted code to abi v.0 for years.

A fortnight ago

Quote:

Does anyone know what is missing to have a stable abi v.1 branch?

Fixing bugs/incompatibilities.

A switch to v1 also means a switch to 64-bit (as was expressed by dragons). Most available titles are not 64-bit ready and would therefor need to be fixed as well.

Quote:

If we get a stable abi v.1 I'm pretty sure people start backporting programs to it and we could move away from v.0

So, what's keeping you from compiling ?

Quote:

I'm thinking I could do a simple AspireOS abi v.1 version where I add whenever new programs are compiled for it. The problem is if it is broken from time to time and everything needs to be recompiled it is just boring.

And... there you have it.. at this point in time it would simply waste more of people's time then it would benefit.

afaik there were 3 attempts at a v1 64 bit distro, and none of them made it to the point of being ready for public consumption.

Quote:

It could at be a test version where users could report bugs and help the developers.

That is a good idea but imho can be 'detected' by users on a nightly build as well.

Personally i never bothered reporting as things were/are still a work in progress so imho reporting most of the encountered bugs just works distracting for developers. Those are either known bugs or bugs in the process of being addressed.

Things changed in the mean time though and progress slowed down a bit.

Even if you manage to squeeze out a 64 bit distro then who is going to test it ? And perhaps more important: who is available to address those reported issues ?

Not trying to discourage your positive attempt to force something there, just being (boringly) realistic.

Posted on: 11/4 22:19
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Re: abi v.0 night builds

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wawa wrote:
people should contribute their software and ports to ports within aros build tree.

No, thank you very much ...

I don't use gcc and do not have time nor the ambition to add a new infrastructure to AROS build tree just to compile my sources.

Another thing you forgot to add is that that there are enough titles available for AROS that are not open source but are converted/recompiled to AROS by its porters who generously have been granted access to its sources by its author(s).

And that's without mentioning the available commercial titles.

So the ideal world you are sketching with your words unfortunately does not exist.

Posted on: 11/4 22:31
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Re: abi v.0 night builds

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im not sketching the ideal world. im trying to outline the optimum. of course sources for closed titles will remain outside aros repository, but are they legion? i doubt. can you name something essential?

out of interest, what are you compiling with?

Posted on: 11/5 0:51
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Re: abi v.0 night builds

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@wawa:
Potatos/patatoes optimum is ideal world in my eyes.

Essential ? that would be in the eye of the beholder ?

Isn't Final writer closed-source until target reached ? (where-ever it status landed for now)

Most code inside ports (and even some inside contrib) isn't essential either. Again, in the eye of the beholder of course.

It doesn't matter much which compiler. Anything besides gcc would require to add support inside AROS build-system.

For the sake of completeness: i'm using FPC for most of my work.

That was removed from AROS tree because of its size/state (and i wouldn't want it any other way as by rough approx. it would double the size of the AROS source-tree)

You could play the essential card for that as well, but for me it is essential because it's compiling production software for me. Without it i/we wouldn't be using AROS at all

Posted on: 11/5 23:46
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Re: abi v.0 night builds

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all sympathy i gathered for tim over the years i consider fwriter in the same state as gallium for os4;) so, no, not essential in my book.

pity free pascal has been removed from aros source. while i understand the reason, a solution might have been found.

aros currently doesnt depend on anything else than c/c++/asm for the core components, but the build system has been improven on being compiler agnostic ove the time mostly by kalamatee. a good approach i think.

for this reason i think free pascal might be included into ports (rather than contribs) to be built on demand. have you heard of alb42 who keeps this compiler up to date for amiga(ng) platforms? i think aros-i386 v0 is supported. i think ill ask him about to share the sources. what do you think?

Posted on: 11/6 1:16
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Re: abi v.0 night builds

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Quote:
wawa wrote:
all sympathy i gathered for tim over the years i consider fwriter in the same state as gallium for os4;) so, no, not essential in my book.

ROFL... but agreed... for now (as i haven't heard from terminills in a while now).


Quote:

aros currently doesnt depend on anything else than c/c++/asm for the core components, but the build system has been improven on being compiler agnostic ove the time mostly by kalamatee. a good approach i think.

Yes, i agree. Excellent work/cleanup done by kalamatee.

Exactly for the reasons mentioned before i did not bother (neither did ALB for that matter, although some additional reasons are in place for that as well).

Quote:

for this reason i think free pascal might be included into ports (rather than contribs) to be built on demand. have you heard of alb42 who keeps this compiler up to date for amiga(ng) platforms? i think aros-i386 v0 is supported. i think ill ask him about to share the sources. what do you think?

To begin with the latter: it does not matter much what i think, as the compiler itself (the AROS bits to be specific) is more ALB42's playground.

Usually i'm in close contact with ALB42, but i haven't heard of him in a while now, nor has he blogged or committed anything lately . Therefor i can only assume he's currently very busy with IRL. (i've been busy as well so might have missed him on occasion)

AROS support has been added in FPC source-tree for quite a while now so fpc compiles for/on AROS out of the box. You can even cross-compile from windows/linux with 3.x compiler.

Official release 3.0 and 3.0.2 (and awaiting 3.0.4) compiles for abiv0 i386 target, but also supports Amiga68k, AmigaPPC and MorphOS. Trunk sources of FPC supports AROS 64bit v1 and arm as well (might be those are already supported in 3.0.2 though, in case it does i simply forgot). Lazarus trunk has preliminary support for AROS.

So if you need the sources of FPC, then head over to fpc svn.

Ready to go executables (nightly's available as well) are over at ALB42's website.

Either me or ALB42 is able to help with building fpc from scratch. For end-users it is better to use an already existing compiler to compile latest sources from trunk.

Other than that, we're awaiting a new fpc release (3.2 to be precise, if our changes make that release) to incorporate latest additions made by ALB42 and Chain-Q which add a fair amount of API call compatibility between Amiga, AROS and MorphOS).

Thank you for your interest.

edit: i forgot to mention trunk adding support for frank's vlink/vasm (not for AROS (yet) though). You can now switch between gnu linker and vlinker by means of a command-line option

Posted on: 11/6 2:09

Edited by origami on 2017/11/6 2:37:10
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Re: abi v.0 night builds

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fpc is not so much my interest but i certainly support the availability of this for all amiga platfroms and therefore am grateful for what you guys are doing.

i must have said it before, but my concern, and as i presume also a general concern is the constant availability of aros software to justify and allow soft transition from abi v0 to abi v1 even though it isnt stable yet.

i think the switch wont happen any soon, but we should be able to support users in the state of transition. especially now, that deadwood is gone.

thats why im trying to help to maintain as much of (mostly productivity) software and ports in prospect of compiling it for all main platforms abiv1 with up to gcc 6.x ;)

btw, also timothy has said something about taking break from aros a while ago. sad;/...

Posted on: 11/6 2:32
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Re: abi v.0 night builds

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i agree wawa, but tbh it is difficult/tiresome testing on unstable api/abi.

The fpc svn trunk is also available on github and sources are available on fpc ftp server as well. They can be found on icaros dvd as well (although admitting: i have no idea what latest fpc version is on that dvd these days). Both ALB and me have source-releases and snapshots of the source-tree as well.

So, when it comes to preservation purposes there are multiple options available.

atm i'm quite unsure of the future as well,i guess only time will be able to tell exactly. Without trying to offend current developers (i'm not quite sure progress is planned), i don't see any improvements on that topic any time soon.

Quote:

thats why im trying to help to maintain as much of (mostly productivity) software and ports in prospect of compiling it for all main platforms abiv1 with up to gcc 6.x ;)

commits are listed in my feeds, so i am aware of your (and others work) thank you for that btw.

Quote:

btw, also timothy has said something about taking break from aros a while ago. sad;/...

Ah, i must have missed the memo on that one so thank you for mentioning.

Posted on: 11/6 2:49
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