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Question about USB devices

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2012/4/16 8:41
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Qualcuno mi sa spiegare tecnicamente perchè un Hard disk anche se collegato su una porta USB non può essere riconosciuto come USB Device (usb.device).

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Someone can explain technically because a hard drive even if connected to a USB port can not be recognized as a USB Device (usb.device).

Posted on: 2015/3/13 7:12
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Re: Question about USB devices

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2004/10/30 17:13
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This can happen if a USB 3.0 drive is attached to a USB 3.0 port (because we don't have a finished XHCI driver).

Posted on: 2015/3/13 9:00
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Re: Question about USB devices

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Thanks response ncafferkey, wondering not only for AROS, but to understand why some software they write ISO images as Windows7-USB-DVD, Rufus, YUMI, USB Image Tool, agree to write only Pendriver on USB Device not recognized as volume also HD and SSD connected to the same USB port. The only software I know of that can write the ISO to HDD is Unebootin, but to do this it has a dedicated option see screenshot.

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Grazie della risposta ncafferkey, chiedevo questo non solo per AROS, ma per capire perchè alcuni software che scrivono le immagini ISO come Windows7-USB-DVD, Rufus, YUMI, USB Image Tool, accettano di scrivere solo Pendriver sul Device USB e non riconoscono come volume anche gli HD e SSD collegati alla stessa porta USB. Il solo software che conosco che riesce a scrivere le ISO su Hard Disk è Unebootin, ma per fare questo ha un opzione dedicata vedi screenshot.


Attach file:



jpg  Unebootin.jpg (57.32 KB)
3226_55031a18cdc25.jpg 581X452 px

Posted on: 2015/3/13 10:10
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Re: Question about USB devices

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@amiga
Because, basically, there is no difference.

Look, if your question is why is AROS not supported then the answer is pretty simple.

layman's description follows:

All these so called "hey, can you see how smart i am as i can boot a cd-rom from a usb pendrive" can only accomplish this by using a form of 'trickery'.

unetbootin (as others) installs a custom linux kernel onto the pendrive, loads it and mostly uses a loop device like squash that contains the actual installation of the OS that you 'installed'.

When the custom boot linux kernel loads into memory, it 'mounts' the squashFS file as drive and, and attempts to boot the actual OS from that into memory.

The only way the 'installed OS' (that resides in this squash file) is able to continue to boot, is that it 'sees' this same squash file (drive/harddisk) as being an actual harddisk. For that a driver is required. A loop device driver we do not have/support in AROS.

Because it is such a low level activity to 'pass along' the squash driver internals from the linux kernel over to the actual OS that is being booted, some special negotiation is required to 'hand over' the (virtual) harddisk parameters from the linux booted kernel to the OS (AROS) that is being booted. It so requires a very low level system driver for AROS, that is at the same time compatible to the solutions used by these "pendrive iso boot installers".

Add support for AROS ? Sure, but it requires understanding of writing/implementing a low level system driver that is compatible to the solution chosen by these pen-drive installers. Each of which could use their own solution, but that is supported (out of the box) by most linux kernels (and as such you can install a linux distribution on a pendrive that way and boot it without any problems).

If you compare it to a windows comparable solution, try searching for firadisk/winvblock, windows xp, and booting a .VHD. It cannot work without having a .vhd driver available in/for the OS that you want to boot (that resides inside the .vhd file).

Red1 + Red3:
Mistakenly used squashfs where is should have written casper. reverted back because i had it right he first time. casper is used as overlay (and has the same 'problems').

Red2:
Additional info on Commercial (windows) solution to boot from vhd: VBoot.

Posted on: 2015/3/14 9:45

Edited by magorium on 2015/3/14 10:07:51
Edited by magorium on 2015/3/14 10:38:41
Edited by magorium on 2015/3/14 11:38:16
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Re: Question about USB devices

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Thanks Magorium, even if the translation does not help I think I understand the problem of AROS. What I did not understand is the problem of some software on Windows, although technically there is no difference between a USB Flash Drive and a Hardisk, the above mentioned programs to esculsione of Unebootin and Yumi, do not allow to write the ISO on hardisk. In Parthian I would create a Hardisk-Live in place of a Pendrive-Live, I attach some screenshots that should clarify my question.

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Grazie magorium, anche se la traduzione non aiuta credo di aver capito il problema su AROS. Quello che non ho capito è la problematica su alcuni software su Windows, anche se tecnicamente non ci sono differenze tra una Pendrive e un Hardisk USB, i programmi sopra citati ad esculsione di Unebootin e Yumi, non permettono di scrivere le ISO sugli hardisk. In partica vorrei creare un Hardisk-Live al posto di una Pendrive-Live, allego qualche screenshot che dovrebbe chiarire il mio quesito.


Attach file:



jpg  Yumi.jpg (99.89 KB)
3226_55049294c8cc7.jpg 521X830 px

jpg  Windows7-USB-DVD.jpg (38.09 KB)
3226_550492a0101b7.jpg 613X362 px

jpg  USB Image Tool.jpg (48.76 KB)
3226_550492b02d4cc.jpg 660X492 px

jpg  Rufus.jpg (54.98 KB)
3226_550492c742a8e.jpg 395X553 px

Posted on: 2015/3/14 12:58
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Re: Question about USB devices

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Ah, As usual, i misunderstood, so i am sorry for that.

I do not claim to know how every solution used by all those installers, but there is definitely a difference between a volume installation and a device installation.

Just to make sure: Are you sure that in case of doing a device installation, that you have enough rights (from windows) to be able/allowed to do that ?

e.g. it could be you cannot take control of the device itself. Furthermore, some usb harddisk do have a special 'recovery' partition that is hidden and disallows you to access/modify (usually this could be 'detected' by using a (good) partition tool started in (real) admin mode.

Maybe someone else got an idea about that, as i do not have a final answer for that.

Posted on: 2015/3/14 13:24
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Re: Question about USB devices

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Thanks magorium, my idea is to use my old USB external harddrive to test or use as a LiveCD UBCD4Win,Hiren's BootCD or some Linux AROS distro and at the same time as the extra space of the hard drive to add all Tools i normally use to do maintenance on the PC.

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Grazie magorium, la mia idea è quella di sfruttare i miei vecchi hardisk USB esterni per testare o usare LiveCD come UBCD4Win, Hiren's BootCD o qualche distro Linux o AROS e nello stesso tempo visto lo spazio in più degli Hard disk aggiungere tutti gli strumenti che uso normalmente per fare manutenzione sui PC.


Posted on: 2015/3/14 23:48
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Re: Question about USB devices

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Let´s see what other bots are thinking about that:

> Hello. My name is Eliza. How may I help you?
* I think it is really a Big Fault in your USB Device.
> Why are you concerned about my USB Device?
* You have to Discuss this matter with any Specialist.
> Oh... have to Discuss this matter with any Specialist?

While Elbot says:

Anyone can make a mistake, even infallible machines. I saw a gang of robots once, discussing issues of cybernetics.

Posted on: 2015/4/15 22:26
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Re: Question about USB devices

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Carlo scusa se ti rispondo qui ma sei riuscito a configurare owb per youtube io non ci riesco imho!!

ciao

Carlo excuse if I answer here, but you managed to configure OWB for youtube I can not do imho !!

hello

Posted on: 2015/4/16 7:59
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