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Mutiny on the Bounty

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I want to check out a discussion about the 'Bounty' system which is common in Amiga/AROS/MorphOS scene.

Why is this method used here? Linux, OSx86, Android or other operating systems do not use it. Could that explain the lack of software, because the programmers - although they could - won't start until they get enough cash? And after they have finished it, with enough bugs in the early release, another cashflow must come. If he isn't interested anymore in the project or the system, he leaves the program, perhaps doesn't even make the source code free. Then you have paid for something what won't be supported anymore - Apple-style.

But there are enough other pay-sites, not only some porn video sites, Amazon, Google Play, Apple Store, now also patreon.com and similar. Will this development lead to a view-by-pay internet? This is already common in (internet-based) TV, and television was free for decades.

Imagine if all Linux and OSx86 developers wanted to have money before starting a project. Especcially the Android branch Cyanogenmod was ported to very much platforms. These systems would never come so far, and the legal state also would be different, because not all software is open-source and it couldn't be a total free operating system. I'm in the OSx86 scene since March 2006 and the only forum was insanelymac.com. I donated twice to the forum, because this was useful to *ALL* users, not only to one person. TonyMacx86 makes useful software, but although his software is free, his forum is banned by other OSx86 forums because his software isn't open source.

The weirdest thing made the OSx86 developer JaS. He was very famous in 10.4.x DVD's, although his 10.4.8 DVD had a very big error. Then he started a website 'Donate for my Macbook Pro'. This was absolutely 'lowest drawer', if you know the expression. It would be sure what will happen, if he had the money for his Macbook, he'll stop developing OSx86. And he did, much later he made a Leopard Server 10.5.4 DVD, which also had its faults.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not used to take money. I don't have much, neither have my friends. I'm doing everything for free. A 'thanks' is enough for me. Well, perhaps it's not just me, OSx86 and Linux users are thinking the same way.

What do you think, is the 'Bounty' system, combined with the fact that only a few programmers in the Amiga scene are existing, a reason for the lack of software? Would it be an advantage to get programmers think the idea of 'making the OS more useful' is better than getting money?

Greets

Posted on: 4/12 1:02

Edited by RC_tech on 2017/4/12 1:24:47
Edited by RC_tech on 2017/4/12 1:30:19
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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty

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> Linux, OSx86 or other operating systems do not use it.

Linux and OSX have professional programmers that are hired and paid for their work.

Until there is no money to pay the voluntary developers on AROS a full salary, you should be glad for every code they are giving to the AROS users.

AROS users can give these programmers a bounty as a reward for their hard work, that's all.

--

There are differences in payment to AOS4 or MorphOS but I don't believe there is enough money behind this systems for paying some full time developers.

Just do the maths:

1 developer 70000 Euros per year

This means

1000 Users must pay 140 Euro every year for a team of two developers.

There are hardly 1000 Users for AOS4, MorphOS or AROS that would pay this much for their OS every year.

Posted on: 4/12 1:31

Edited by GreenNight on 2017/4/12 1:58:31
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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty

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Quote:

RC_tech wrote:
I want to check out a discussion about the 'Bounty' system which is common in Amiga/AROS/MorphOS scene.

[..]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not used to take money. I don't have much, neither have my friends. I'm doing everything for free. A 'thanks' is enough for me. Well, perhaps it's not just me, OSx86 and Linux users are thinking the same way.



Maybe you might be surprised, but (nearly) all development for AROS does not even get a thank you.

Posted on: 4/12 2:42
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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty

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@o1i:

That's not true. If there is something really good - and unfortunately there is not much - then a lot of people anre pleased and thank the developer or whatever.

@GreenNight:

Wrong. There are enough programmers for Windows, Linux, Android and OS X which are doing their work for free. Otherwiese wouldn't be so many programs for these operating systems. Especcially the OSx86 scene has tools, drivers and stuff real Mac users never have dreamt of.

I'm sure, if all these open source-programmers in the last 20 years had done just if they get money, no alternative operating system would have worked. AROS exists since 1995, 22 years. Is it a daily useable operating system? No. Too less supported platforms, to less supported hardware, no actual software. OSx86 exists just since 11 years, half the time, and even long-time Mac users are switching to it because Hackintoshes are cheaper and more powerful than real Macs. And the community also had to program lots of PC hardware drivers, and it works from a Pentium 4 to a Xeon 12 core CPU.

Posted on: 4/12 3:20
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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty

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Quote:

Quote:

o1i_tech wrote:

Maybe you might be surprised, but (nearly) all development for AROS does not even get a thank you.


RC_tech wrote:
@o1i:

That's not true. If there is something really good - and unfortunately there is not much - then a lot of people anre pleased and thank the developer or whatever.


It is true, because most of the work is done on the internals of the OS, where people don't even notice them, except when they are leading to a failure.

90% of the OS are about routines and programs that have to work with others, 10% are seen by the user as more colours on the GUI, another function on the GUI or a better user interface for WiFi.

Most users are more concentrated on the Applications or Games, things that are not even touched by the core developers.

Posted on: 4/12 5:32
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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty

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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

RC_tech wrote:
Linux, OSx86 or other operating systems do not use it.


Linux and OSX have professional programmers that are hired and paid for their work.


RC_tech wrote:

Wrong. There are enough programmers for Windows, Linux, Android and OS X which are doing their work for free.


I was talking about the systems programmers, maybe you are talking about Applications, Games or Apps ...

Well some might be done for free, but most 'free' games under Android are not free at all.

Quote:

Otherwiese wouldn't be so many programs for these operating systems. Especcially the OSx86 scene has tools, drivers and stuff real Mac users never have dreamt of.


Drivers are made by developers paid by the hardware companies, the source code remains closed, if you are using an obscure OS you don't get drivers.

Video codecs are done by developers working for companies who want to sell the tools for cutting, arranging or broadcasting this stuff. Often you can only get the players for free.

And even if you find the label 'Open Source' on a compiler, it might exist only because a CPU company has paid developers for making the 'free tools'.

Posted on: 4/12 5:47
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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty

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Quote:

o1i wrote:

Maybe you might be surprised, but (nearly) all development for AROS does not even get a thank you.


You're right - as users we probably don't say 'thanks' nealy enough, but the work done by all the developers, maintainers and distro builders in pushing forward the platform is always very much appreciated.

Cheers,
Nigel.

Posted on: 4/12 6:43
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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty

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Quote:

RC_tech wrote:
(snip)

I'm sure, if all these open source-programmers in the last 20 years had done just if they get money, no alternative operating system would have worked. AROS exists since 1995, 22 years. Is it a daily useable operating system? No. Too less supported platforms, to less supported hardware, no actual software.

(snip)


I have to repectfully disagree here. I have three main machines (netbook, laptop and desktop) and on each AROS is the only OS. It covers my net needs (OWB, YAM), media playing (mplayer), work requirements (PageStream & FinalCalc, admittedly under Janus, ghostscript, AROSpdf and Hollywood for building apps to be used at work), image editing (too many to mention), etc. At work of course I have to use Windows as well as my own AROS netbook, but for home 99.5% of the time I only every boot AROS.*

I'm just about to invest in a (for once, brand) new motherboard to build up into a media server (music & video) and home controller; sure, you have to be damn careful in your choice of hardware, but I'd say that's a small price to pay. The motherboard I'm considering is just £30 and looks, from the specs, to be natively supported for network & audio; I can add an nvidea card for graphics easily enough.

Quote:

RC_tech wrote:
(snip)

OSx86 exists just since 11 years, half the time, and even long-time Mac users are switching to it because Hackintoshes are cheaper and more powerful than real Macs. And the community also had to program lots of PC hardware drivers, and it works from a Pentium 4 to a Xeon 12 core CPU.

(snip)


I think the biggest issue here has been the fracturing of the old Amiga community into the four camps, diluting even further what was a vastly smaller user/developer base than the Mac enjoys.** It simply needs more developers. Heck, maybe I'll try to learn C and properly contribute when I eventually get to retirement age...

Cheers,
Nigel.

* The other 0.5%? Occasionally I have to use a live Linux DVD if the partition on a usb drive is too screwed up for HDToolbox to sort it.

** Sure, everyone has their own reasons for joining the camps they did - for me, it's not about nostalgia for 'classic machines', it's about running a modern OS based on the principles of AmigaOS which can be used daily and on cheap, readily available hardware, so its has to be the AROS camp.

Posted on: 4/12 7:15
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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty

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I find it bizarre that someone would begrudge the fact that some people are happy to contribute a few dollars here and there to our woefully under appreciated developers.

The vast, vast majority of work done on an OS is far from fun, nor easy, but if it helps encourage someone to trudge through something unpleasurable that helps AROS along then people showing appreciation with a donation or two can only be a good thing.
Its not unique in the alternative OS world (qnx, syllable, plan9 and others), nor is it new to the Amiga world (shareware, giftware, etc. aren't drastically different and have always played a large part in the Amigas life).

Additionally its a completely different kettle of fish with mainstream systems. There's billions spent on Mac os, windows and Linux. There's also millions of developers, and development is often easier for them than amiga-oid systems (direct support from hardware vendors, even Intel and AMD pay people to contribute to things like blender, povray and GCC).

Posted on: 4/12 8:01
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Re: Mutiny on the Bounty

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Quote:

RC_tech wrote:

What do you think, is the 'Bounty' system, combined with the fact that only a few programmers in the Amiga scene are existing, a reason for the lack of software? Would it be an advantage to get programmers think the idea of 'making the OS more useful' is better than getting money?


I guess you are not an old timer in this scene. The lack of new software was already there before the bounty systems. Actually the bounty system were set up to try to get more software developed again for Amiga-like systems.

greets,
Staf.

Posted on: 4/12 9:57
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