Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Main Menu
Who's Online
1 user(s) are online (1 user(s) are browsing Forum)

Members: 0
Guests: 1

more...

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users





Aros, Vampire, security and GPU's

Joined:
2008/6/7 13:52
Group:
Member
Posts: 2111
Offline
Some of you may remember my involvement in this amazing Aros platform but I kind of took a back seat for a while and just went back to my true love of classic Amiga's, and making them the best they can be for my personal pleasure. I have also worked on cool 360 video software and products, more on this later. However during this time I face a dilema, my A2000 could really do with with faster drive, graphics and cpu even though it is 66mhz 060, Cybergraphics 64 etc. Now Vampire is the way forward for me and for my A2000 although I doubt I will upgrade my A1000 as that is a shrine for Jay Miners chipset

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd6M4STITMc

Any way, what has this to do with Aros?

Well Aros now has a chance to do something amazing, that is link the Classic Amiga community to the Aros community and give a true path into the real Next Generation Amiga's on any CPU platform. I believe supporting the Vampire platform (assuming they are open sourcing graphics side as promised) with the full force of this great community is the way forward.

Classic fans are also in camps, those who just want to play old Amiga games, those who will not do anything outside of the way it was done originally and the camp that pushes Amiga hardware to the limit. I fall into the last two camps depending on the machine, so my A2000 is my 'push to the limit' platform and I will get Vampire as soon as possible to make it better than an A4000. My A1000 is just a shrine but has ACA500+ which is as far as I will go and it is amazing. I would move my A2000 to Aros68k if it worked the same as my enhance wb3.1 (not 3.9) system. Once Aros has removed the need for Cloanto's roms we can then really push forward, to be honest I do not see me replacing them yet myself so I am a good benchmark

As for other users, if we capture the hearts of the Classic Amiga fans then offer them a credible general purpose modern Amiga/Aros platform then Aros will become the defacto future of the Amiga and thousands of Amiga fenatics will be ambassadors for Aros also.

But

Yes there is always a but, and this is because whilst Aros has made huge strides there are three key areas that I believe it needs to address if it is to become serious and create a niche area in a smal part of the big computer world.

1. All SMP work needs supporting and completing and being rolled into Paolo's amazing Icaros and the default Aros distribution as standard.
2. We need to ensure that Aros is as secure as possible which is not an easy task I know but we all know the reason Aros is not hacked is because it is under the radar. So high speed encryption and some kind of user security is a necessity, especially if all internet traffic can be secured as privacy is a big issue now as we are all aware.
3. GPU support is already in Aros but that is with ancient GPU's and the Nouaveau drivers that it is based on have advanced further and we need to catch up. Sadly we have lost Deadwood who maintained this and I hope Nick or others can help with this work as supporting the 900 series GPU's will make the next part viable.

Aros and VR, yes Amiga started the original public VR push remember Virtuality?

I have been working developing camera's for 360 video and the VR and 360 video market is growing and this is an Area that Amiga/Aros could make a come back if the above points are addressed. I would be interested in pursuing a VR headset for Aros if this work could be done and other ideas I have can then happen but only with minimum GTX970+ performance.

Finally

To be honest people are not tied to Windows, Mac x86 or Arm. They use the systems that do a job and as long as they are secure they will use a platform that is retro inspired if it does what they want.

Any way food for thought maybe and if those three points can be discussed then I could support with encouragement and some money where appropriate to support above work, although remember I am not Trevor

Steve Jones

Posted on: 7/10 2:57
_________________
Amiga 1000, 3000D and iMica Silent and NVidia version running latest Icaros.
http://www.imica.net

Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Aros, Vampire, security and GPU's

Joined:
2007/8/21 11:21
Group:
Member
Posts: 148
Offline
Quote:

clusteruk wrote:
Some of you may remember my involvement in this amazing Aros platform but I kind of took a back seat for a while and just went back to my true love of classic Amiga's, and making them the best they can be for my personal pleasure.


Welcome back!

Quote:

Well Aros now has a chance to do something amazing, that is link the Classic Amiga community to the Aros community and give a true path into the real Next Generation Amiga's on any CPU platform. I believe supporting the Vampire platform (assuming they are open sourcing graphics side as promised) with the full force of this great community is the way forward.


Despite of not being faster or as compatible as (Win)UAE it seems Vimpire might pull off the trick and finally get more classic users to look into AROS.

Quote:

Once Aros has removed the need for Cloanto's roms we can then really push forward, to be honest I do not see me replacing them yet myself so I am a good benchmark


Yes, that is the big problem.
It is the last mile - the last little bit of speed and compatibility that is still missing.
AROS is so damn close, but it is still not close enough.

Quote:

1. All SMP work needs supporting and completing and being rolled into Paolo's amazing Icaros and the default Aros distribution as standard.


You talked about Vampire and 68k earlier - so "Aros Vision" would be the distribution of choice.
Maybe in a combination with "AmiKit for real".

Quote:

2. We need to ensure that Aros is as secure as possible which is not an easy task I know but we all know the reason Aros is not hacked is because it is under the radar.


AROS and AmigaOS are single-user and single-address-space without memory-protection or OS enforced capabilities. That is part of its DNA!

Sandboxing and/or VM are the best way to introduce security.
Think of QubesOS and Docker.
Luckily our kernel is small and lightweight enough to cause very little overhead, even if we start a whole new instance of AROS just for a browser.

For the filesystem we would need some kind of overlay support:
Instead of polluting our filesystems with multiuser management or complicated posix rights management, a per-app-view of the filesystem would make more sense and would be easier to implement.
things like xpk-filesystem offer that kind of functionality already - just used in other ways.

Quote:

3. GPU support is already in Aros but that is with ancient GPU's ...


Drivers: the problem of every alternative OS.
One thing is AGA and SAGA and I hope AROS will be a s fast as AOS is very soon.
(Bounty?)
Other drivers - once someone is done writing a new one it will probably already be obsolete :-/
A compatibility-layer to use unmodified linux or bsd gfx-drivers would make more sense.


4. (my addition)
full support throughout the OS for a 64-bit filesystem, supporting large partitions and large files as suggested by Kalamatee.

Posted on: 7/10 9:30

Edited by cybergorf on 2017/7/10 11:25:27
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Aros, Vampire, security and GPU's

Joined:
2007/3/13 15:52
From West Midlands, UK
Group:
Member
Posts: 920
Offline
Quote:

clusteruk wrote:
(snip)

Aros and VR, yes Amiga started the original public VR push remember Virtuality?

(snip)


Funnily enough at the Recursion computer fair recently I was talking to one of the chaps from the Retro Computer Museum who was saying about their (and his own) rather impressive collection of Virtuality machines - all first generation with each having an Amiga 3000 at their heart.

Quote:

clusteruk wrote:
(snip)

I have been working developing camera's for 360 video and the VR and 360 video market is growing and this is an Area that Amiga/Aros could make a come back if the above points are addressed. I would be interested in pursuing a VR headset for Aros if this work could be done and other ideas I have can then happen but only with minimum GTX970+ performance.

(snip)


Interesting - presumably this would be using WiFi to transmit the video to the headset? By the way, what about a super cheap virtual reality system - I was wondering about a headset containing say two RPis, each driving one 'screen' for each eye, running AROS as their OS of course. Obviously the quality would be limited, but there could be applications - I was partciularly thinking of education.

Quote:

clusteruk wrote:
Finally

To be honest people are not tied to Windows, Mac x86 or Arm. They use the systems that do a job and as long as they are secure they will use a platform that is retro inspired if it does what they want.

(snip)


I'm glad someone else feels this way. There is so much negativity (not so much here but on other Amiga sites) about the platform - essentially sasying it will never be anything ever again other than a nostalgist's hobby. I still think the platform has a lot to offer and, as cybergof references, its relative simplicity can be an advantage rather than an insurmountable handicap.

Anyway, good to see you back on here,

Cheers,
Nigel.

Posted on: 7/10 14:43
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Aros, Vampire, security and GPU's

Joined:
2010/8/30 7:20
Group:
Member
Posts: 952
Offline
amiga, aros and whatever other amigalike ng solution will never be mainstream again. face it. at least it is very unlikely.

now, there is a lot of work on aros, before it becomes a viable alternative for amiga users. before we can even talk about security, proper smp (not likely on 68k) and other features. before aros can even attract more genuine amiga fans basic work needs to be put into it. the obvious bottlenecks, flaws and even little bugs none ever took care about for years.

i am interacting with amiga users on these subjects all the time on sites like eab or a1k. by now i know pretty well whats holding them back.

Posted on: 7/10 20:45
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Aros, Vampire, security and GPU's

Joined:
2007/8/21 11:21
Group:
Member
Posts: 148
Offline
Quote:
before aros can even attract more genuine amiga fans basic work needs to be put into it. the obvious bottlenecks, flaws and even little bugs none ever took care about for years.

i am interacting with amiga users on these subjects all the time on sites like eab or a1k. by now i know pretty well whats holding them back.


Could you publish a list of the most needed features and the most annoying bottlenecks? Maybe this list could than serve as a basis for a bounty description?

Posted on: 7/11 10:59
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Aros, Vampire, security and GPU's

Joined:
2010/8/30 7:20
Group:
Member
Posts: 952
Offline
kalamatee already outlined the most urgent bottleneck fixes.

i could mention whats immediately annoying for an entry user, such as wanderer advanced prefs non working on 68k. i even try to fix such stuff myself, unfortunatelly mostly unsucessful.


Posted on: 7/11 15:50
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer






You can view topic.
You cannot start a new topic.
You cannot reply to posts.
You cannot edit your posts.
You cannot delete your posts.
You cannot add new polls.
You cannot vote in polls.
You cannot attach files to posts.
You cannot post without approval.

[Advanced Search]


Search
Top Posters
1 paolone
paolone
4364
2 magorium
magorium
4095
3 phoenixkonsole
phoenixkonsole
3893
4 nikolaos
nikolaos
3694
5 deadwood
deadwood
2923
6 ncafferkey
ncafferkey
2648
7 mazze
mazze
2214
8 clusteruk
clusteruk
2111
9 Kalamatee
Kalamatee
2024
10 damocles
damocles
1789
© 2004-2017 AROS Exec